Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum Student Grade Titanium White query

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  • #460218
    Richard P
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        I imagine the answer is No.. but is there any Student Grade Titanium White’s they are decently pigmented in terms of opacity? :)

        #673132
        Michael Lion
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            I hope someone answers, I’d like to know also!

            Maybe a candid camera thing. “We’ve secretly filled up this artist’s Williamsburg tube with Winton Titanium White. Will he notice the difference?”

            Artist speaks to camera “Yes, I love this Williamsburg paint” not realizing that he’s actually using cheap Winton paint.

            #673130
            JCannon
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                I had — actually, still have — an old tube of Pictor’s white which is not a bad white at all. Back in the day, that stuff was ultra cheap. (Older tubes crop up on ebay every so often.) A pro-quality white is undeniably better, but if Pictor were still available, and if it were still sold for a buck (for a larger tube!), I could make do without complaint.

                (Back after a short break)

                Okay, I just now conducted a brief test of the three titanium whites in my bag of tricks — Pictor, M Graham Titanium white with Alkyd and Gamblin Fastmatte (my usual; another alkyd concoction). A thin layer, applied with no medium, was applied over printed material. The final result was of almost exactly equal opacity, with the Fastmatte winning by a hair. The Pictor was oiler and smother — easiest to use without medium.

                Sorry, but I used up my Grumbacher T White a while back, so I couldn’t invite it to the party.

                I can’t pretend to have any experience with current student/bargain lines when it comes to this particular color.

                #673117
                wal_t
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                    SWatches done with Van Gogh Titanium white over a black acrylic stroke.
                    Using the synthetic brush shown in the photo and the later swatches thinned with Talens 083 oil painting medium.

                    1. Very thick from the tube.
                    2. Thick from the tube.
                    3. Moderate from the tube
                    4. Moderate , thinned with a bit of medium.
                    5. And 6. Thin, thinned with a bit of medium.
                    7. And 8. Thin, thinned with more medium, paint is very fluid.

                    Myself I paint more in the thickness of swatch 3 and 4 i.e. opaque enough and I never paint white on black with the purpose to make it pure white again but typically paint on a midtone acrylic ground.

                    #673118
                    Gigalot
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                        It looks like Van Gogh Titanium White is very fine paint to use for mixing colors. Looks similar in mixing quality to extra expensive “Ceramic White” from Holbein. You can save a bunch of Euro money with it! :)

                        #673107
                        RogueRipple
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                            I agree with wal_t. The Van Gogh Titanium White is quite good for a “student” grade paint.

                            - Kelvin

                            "Things fall apart, it's scientific." - David Byrne

                            #673138
                            Richard P
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                                Thanks for that! Do you have an ‘artist’ grade white to compare it to? :)

                                #673106
                                Delofasht
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                                    I think you may need to define what you consider opaque, everything is transparent when painted thinly enough. Of course, you could be wanting it more opaque for mixing purposes, which is interesting as most people want it less strong in mixes which generally means less opaque.

                                    In general though, the difference between artists quality Titanium White and student grade is much less than other colors usually. Titanium dioxide is an inexpensive pigment and as such is usually made strong regardless of grade of paint. Van Gogh’s has a great feel and covers well in most applications, just when you start thinning it out with solvent or oil does it become more transparent. Really good paint.

                                    - Delo Delofasht
                                    #673116
                                    Papercut
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                                        It looks like Van Gogh Titanium White is very fine paint to use for mixing colors. Looks similar in mixing quality to extra expensive "Ceramic White" from Holbein. You can save a bunch of Euro money with it! :)

                                        Ceramic White is more of a Lead White Replacement. I somehow got a tube of it cheap and am a bit loath to use it. Its great. Winton Flake White Hue is alright, but dries very chalky. It is more akin to Lucien Freud’s much loved Cremnitz White vs a more ropy David David flake white. Art Treehouse White is pretty awesome- kindly like David Davis Flake White, but made with Titanium and a bit of other stuff.

                                        For those doing BFA in Uni- you should double major in a money generating degree program. Just in case. Otherwise you could be wasting a great deal of your time and your (and other's) money.
                                        I have an BA (Sinology) and MBA that I acquired after my BFA. I should have done my BA concurrently with my BFA. Oh well, too late for me, but maybe not for you.

                                        #673119
                                        Gigalot
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                                            Ceramic White is more of a Lead White Replacement. I somehow got a tube of it cheap and am a bit loath to use it. Its great. Winton Flake White Hue is alright, but dries very chalky. It is more akin to Lucien Freud’s much loved Cremnitz White vs a more ropy David David flake white. Art Treehouse White is pretty awesome- kindly like David Davis Flake White, but made with Titanium and a bit of other stuff.

                                            I did Eggshell White by hand, it took approximately three hours of work to prepare crashed eggshell, to remove films from it and to disperse pigment on granite slab with my jasper-made muller. But the result is so fine, that now I can completely forget about any Lead any more…:wave: I just do not understand, why I had never tried to grind Eggshell before. It gives much better covering power, than any other calcium carbonate materials I used before.

                                            BTW, Titanium White, even when used in small quantities into “Lead White HUE” paint, gives chalky properties to such white. If you try to wipe such paint from the surface, the absorbed residue of Titanium White pigment particles gives “haze” effect because micro-particles of Titanium White are not transparent. They are opaque as well and will reflect light.

                                            #673129
                                            Humbaba
                                            Default

                                                I imagine the answer is No.. but is there any Student Grade Titanium White’s they are decently pigmented in terms of opacity? :)

                                                Winsor & Newton Winton Titanium white

                                                #673128
                                                Harold Roth
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                                                    Ceramic White is more of a Lead White Replacement. I somehow got a tube of it cheap and am a bit loath to use it. Its great. Winton Flake White Hue is alright, but dries very chalky. It is more akin to Lucien Freud’s much loved Cremnitz White vs a more ropy David David flake white. Art Treehouse White is pretty awesome- kindly like David Davis Flake White, but made with Titanium and a bit of other stuff.

                                                    Ceramic white isn’t titantium oxide, though. It’s strontium titanate.

                                                    I also thought the reason why WN sold (or maybe still does) zinc as what they called a mixing white (“Chinese White” in watercolors) was because it is transparent and titanium isn’t.

                                                    #673110
                                                    Anonymous

                                                        there are other white pigment/additives that are used in mixing whites like lithopone and baryte, and these are seldom listed on the tube. All whites are opaque, none are transparent, just some are less opaque than others, yet these are called “transparent”.

                                                        is there any Student Grade Titanium White’s they are decently pigmented in terms of opacity?

                                                        People tend to demand that titanium white should be only used as artist quality and therefore is the most white, opaque, pigmented, chalky, and high tint strength as possible, but then others complain about the strength of titanium white and claim that the big thing about lead white being so great is said to be that it is not so white, opaque, pigmented, chalky, and high tinting. So do you really need a titanium to be as strong as possible?
                                                        I have found Winton to be as serviceable as any other white, but Permalba is the whitest.

                                                        #673139
                                                        Richard P
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                                                            Hi Sid,

                                                            I work in one layer alla-prima so the more opaque the white the easier for me. I’ve tried several different artist quality ones and have my favourites. But as we use more white than any other paint I was wondering if the student ones were worth looking at :)

                                                            Richard

                                                            #673148
                                                            Goodcatbadcat
                                                            Default

                                                                Hi Richard!

                                                                I see some votes for Winton, and while I haven’t used Winsor and Newton much of anything since I was in school, I can say that from what I have seen it has performed pretty well in permanence experiments.

                                                                But I’m going to go out on a limb and throw some unsolicited support for artist grade white paint into the stream of posts. So, I don’t know what your subject matter tends to be but I am a portrait/figurative artist, which means almost every painting/study I do hinges on the right white. Personally, I am quite terrified of yellowing, which I have experienced on occasion (and quickly), and I am also but much less concerned about delamination (which I have never experienced and drift in and out of love with zinc white in phases over the years). I won’t go into the Zinc debate, but the yellowing associated with white paint can result from a low pigment to oil ratio, which you are more likely to encounter in a student grade paint that employs more fillers and binders, the carrier oil itself- i.e. linseed oil, which is lovely but more economical than say poppy seed oil, or walnut oil, and environmental factors (like storing your work in a dark room, which I am guilty of). The environmental factors I can control, but beyond that I can only make informed choices to help insure the longevity of my efforts.

                                                                Even if I used no other artist grade colors, I would still probably choose an artist grade white because the bulk of my palette revolves around white dominant halftones and tints. I am very nit picky about my whites, I like certain qualities, and even eschew some of the well known higher mid range brand whites because of some nuance that doesn’t agree with me (Holbein, I’m looking at you). I think you might be better served to ask yourself how important is white to your work.

                                                                If you are confident student grade will suffice, I really like Gamblin 1980 paints. I have a few tubes and they are surprisingly pigmented. I can’t be positive but I believe they are made with three ingredients- pigment, linseed oil, and marble dust.

                                                                I haven’t tried the Richeson Shiva oils, and maybe they’ve already been mentioned, but I’ve been told by other painters they were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the paints, which are even more affordable than Gamblin 1980.

                                                                I personally use Daniel Smith, traditional and WS formula titanium white oil paints, and they are purely PW6 and safflower oil, so they are very opaque and pigmented. If you are looking for opacity (someone has probably already said this) look for PW6, which is Titanium Dioxide, because SOME brands who shall remain nameless market their paint simply as “titanium white” but also include PW7, which is zinc, and that will increase transparency.

                                                                I also use Williamsburg (safflower suspension and quite expensive), and M. Graham (walnut oil and moderately priced on par with DS), and even though they are artist grade they are far more economical in my mind for their purpose because they are so pigmented. I paint a minimum of eight hours daily- even if I am only doing studies while watching movies, and with the exception of taking a few breaks to work with pastels/other media, I have only managed to use up two 37 ml tubes of paint in the last year.

                                                                Food for thought.

                                                                “I'm drawing a picture in my mind of what's on your mind. I'm a little confused in my mind, but your mind is coming in clear as hell." - John Altoon

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