Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting The Technical Forum monetary aspects of technique

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  • #461713
    ronsu18
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        a sunday debate!
        in the main oil painting forums is a thread by RobinZ bringing up an old and sparkly fresh aspect of painting;

        how do you meet collectors’ insight on technique relating to value?

        is alla prima “knocking them out” in public opinion; and layered technique more valued as a technique? what is your experience of the general opinion – undoubtedly based on discussions on your own work?

        as a beginner, i find alla prima ridiculously difficult, impossible. for me, it crystallises the essence of painting, quoting a rather known painter Richard Schmid :): right color in the right place. on the other hand, layered technique demands the same skill plus understanding the chemistry and color handling in an additive color space, using not effect but skill in building an image from base to peak one fifth of a millimeter at a time.

        is it a question of time? is it a question of skill as pervceived by the collector?

        i’m writing this with distancing tone and phrases to fend off wrongful ignition. everyone knows that when you like something that already is valuing it higher than the things you don’t like.
        what is your experience on all the aspects of this subject 2018?
        do you feel they help or hinder you in your work?

        C&C welcome

        #690861
        Dcam
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            Hi.
            I show in various galleries, juried and otherwise and I’ve never heard this come up as a factor. Most buyers , collectors, gallery owners, and jurers are looking at the product and the medium (oil on canvas, or board, acrylics, etc.) not the process.
            If a painting is stunning, whether Alla prima, or indirect it, it seems to me it is attractive and will sell to Collectors.
            Collectors also look at who is “Hot” and not so much, technique.
            There are artists whose techniques are well known such as Schmid with his Alla prima and Charlie Hunter with his washes of monochrome wipe out technique in water miscible oils.
            Personally, I use both techniques and don’t find one or the other more valuable.
            Happy Painting.
            Derek

            #690856
            Delofasht
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                This is a fascinating debate topic, and one that I wish I could give more feedback on from a monetary standpoint. Suffice it to say that the pieces that have garnered the most accolades for myself have been the studio works that have had the most time spent. The average person watching me make a study seems most impressed by the alla prima work, but the results of these have garnered far less attraction than when I posted a finished work from the studio. Obviously I just need to achieve the quality of my longer studio efforts in one tenth the time, right? :lol:

                - Delo Delofasht
                #690857
                Don Ketchek
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                    Individual galleries or collectors may have a certain preference, but I have never heard of the technique making a difference in terms of monetary value. In many cases, you cannot tell what exact technique was used. If I paint using direct painting (as opposed to glazing), then a painting done in one sitting may look no different than one done in two or three (or eight) layers.

                    Don

                    #690869
                    Raffless
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                        Traditional paintings and 19th century have lost 42 % in value in the last 15 years according to Coutts from major gallery sales. This includes realism with layering techniques. Wheras modern painting including Alla Prima has actually gained substantially in value in the last 15 years. Post war and contemporary has gained 64% in value

                        Theres your answer on market trends in a nutshell.

                        https://www.coutts.com/insight-articles/news/2017/coutts-passion-assets-index-2017.html

                        #690859
                        AllisonR
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                            The techniques and the methods matter VERY MUCH – to us, the painters. To the other 99% of the population it is the finished painting. The methods are irrelevant, or at most an interesting curiosity.

                            To me personally, it is 95% the painting journey, the process, and only 5% the end result. Yes, I want and try for a very good end result, but once the painting is done then I have a small smile, maybe some quick notes about what I could have done better, but then it is on to the next painting. But to the buyer, the gallery, the public it is the other way around, 95% of the interest is in the finished painting they are looking at. If someone wants to know if it was alla prima or multilayer, 9 times out of 10 that person is another artist.

                            And there are artists that actually paint for other artists.

                            I’ve had people buy polished, finished paintings. And I’ve had them buy one color wash studies. I do price them differently.

                            Being born places you at a greater risk of dying later in life.

                            http://www.artallison.com/
                            #690866
                            JCannon
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                                Most people do not know what glazing is. On that topic, they are not only ignorant, they are uneducable. If you are emulating the style of Maxfield Parrish, do NOT let anyone see the unfinished painting, because you will surely be asked: “But why is it all blue?” Even after you explain, they will give you a befuddled look and say: “Yeah, but…I still don’t get it. Why’d you made it all blue?”

                                I speak from experience. In my case, I’m mostly talking about my airbrush days, when I would model human skin in violet and then go over it with a layer of transparent orange. Magic. But I learned the hard way that you can’t let non-artists see the magic trick before you’ve pulled it off.

                                Glazing has one great monetary advantage: You use a lot less paint.

                                #690867

                                People obviously buy art for a variety of reasons, I have never had a client ask what style a painting was painted in. My work has been purchased by people living in the US and other countries around the world. Primarily people decide “they” can’t live without it and most importantly open their “wallets”.

                                Learning marketing skills is important if you want to get your name out and build a client base.

                                There is a great deal to learn as a beginner and the learning is never over. Even famous painters went through years of training, blood, sweat and tears before selling their works of art…there is always a lot of competition out here. Most of the excellent artist giving advice on WC have been painting for decades and have put a lot of dedication into refining their skills and talents.

                                Enjoy the journey, try all styles and perhaps you will create your own style. Paint from your soul…that will be your gift.

                                Angel :angel:
                                Website Makeover Coming! This is available now.
                                http://www.artist-bythesea.com/

                                #690872
                                ronsu18
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                                    great comments everyone!
                                    while the totality, as started by Dcam, seems evident, it’s important to hear your voices.
                                    AllisonR; success is like a coffee break; enormous hassle for five minutes of fugitive pleasure – if you bake your own cookies.

                                    big thanks to you all, Raffless that link is keeper.

                                    C&C welcome

                                    #690864
                                    Harold Roth
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                                        Glazing has one great monetary advantage: You use a lot less paint.

                                        When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be about the expense of using thick impasto and whether buyers would know if the artist used a lot of molding paste instead and then painted over it. :) It was interesting to see the info about which type of painting wealthy people are investing in. Seems like I remember seeing a much more detailed breakout of that sort of thing a couple years ago.

                                        #690865
                                        Humbaba
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                                            Glazing has one great monetary advantage: You use a lot less paint.

                                            I am afraid, and this is based on personal experience, that this is incorrect. Glazing takes much more preparation than just tossing paint around because you do several layers, you also need to use quality transparent paint to do the job correctly at the end, and a good medium, which adds extra costs.

                                            I am not trying to brag about this, but I do use a medium that it is tricky to prepare, which also serves as a varnish, quite costly too.

                                            So in short, it is the Alla Prima or wet on wet that actually helps you save money.

                                            #690858
                                            Anonymous

                                                is alla prima “knocking them out” in public opinion; and layered technique more valued as a technique?..is it a question of time? is it a question of skill as pervceived by the collector?.

                                                I don’t think ronsu is asking about which method saves the artist a dollar or two on paint and medium.
                                                It is a question about the the perceived value of the painting, to a buyer/collector, when considering which style of painting was used.

                                                I have never known of any case where the method of painting is considered vs value. Value is all over the place. Other factors, like the artist’s name/reputation are what matters.
                                                The reality of value of art is that a painting by me, that could take many hours of delicate layering, may only sell for peanuts, while another famous artist paintings, that are done in less than a day, with paint poured out of a can onto a canvas on the floor, while climbing around on a step ladder, may sell for millions.

                                                #690873
                                                ronsu18
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                                                    i hear you.
                                                    the famous do sell the power of the investment, mere mortals peddle in esthetics :D

                                                    C&C welcome

                                                    #690860
                                                    Papercut
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                                                        Since Patreon/Youtube seems to be a large source of revenue for artists these days (at least for telegenic young girls), I would say whichever one gives you the most video coverage and hits :P

                                                        For those doing BFA in Uni- you should double major in a money generating degree program. Just in case. Otherwise you could be wasting a great deal of your time and your (and other's) money.
                                                        I have an BA (Sinology) and MBA that I acquired after my BFA. I should have done my BA concurrently with my BFA. Oh well, too late for me, but maybe not for you.

                                                        #690875
                                                        Goodcatbadcat
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                                                            My father is a pretty well respected artist, I’ve grown up amongst the art community, and I believe it’s really quite relative. The art world is so varied and what a certain subset of artists find impressive, along with the buyers who orbit them, won’t move another group whatsoever.

                                                            There are those people who possess enough intelligence to see merit in the spectrum of techniques employed by modern artists today, but I think they are the exception and not the rule. I believe my father, who is an abstract expressionist, has collectors because they like his work, but I believe they are also told why they should like his work, without necessarily understanding how it was produced or what it means. They are the people who want to purchase ten paintings at a time because they expect them to increase in value…..”someday.” (This is actually a bad example because I am referring to a specific instance and person and works of various sizes- the typical collector wouldn’t buy ten paintings, but a serious collector will often buy more than one over the course of a living artist’s career).

                                                            Most buyers aren’t collectors- they are just people who can afford original art and buy what resonates with them. They are the people who really keep the market alive, and I have never heard someone who falls into that category ask if something is direct or indirect. I personally find alla prima very difficult. It’s what I started out doing then discovered I was a MUCH better indirect painter, but my goal- my challenge- is to be a good alla prima painter. Not great. Just as good as I can be. Because it is so hard.

                                                            I think, people always devalue what they perceive as easy and attribute worth to what they perceive as hard, strictly technically speaking. Making them understand it’s all hard is part of marketing that is left up to gallery owners and PR. But I think even the average buyer can appreciate conceptual value when it is there. Show a young art student a Picasso and they say “I could have painted that,” but tell them what cubism is and it means more.

                                                            “I'm drawing a picture in my mind of what's on your mind. I'm a little confused in my mind, but your mind is coming in clear as hell." - John Altoon

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