Home Forums Explore Media Oil Pastels Oil Pastel Talk Do you guys use fixativevarnish for the finished OP paintings? (big summary)

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  • #469359
    Mira
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        I know there are lots of threads about fixative/varnish questions here on WC, but I would like to know what the current active members-OPlists use :) especially the ones who produce works in high volume – Christel, Rich, Sarah, what do you say? Also all other oil pastelists here, what do you prefer?
        Please, don’t forget to say what OPs you use because it’s important :)

        1. I know Ed Brothers (fishfan) frames all his works under glass. He has also said he prefers the smaller sized paintings because it helps to reduce the cost of framing. Framing under glass is said to be the best way, but man, it’s so costly! And inconvenient :(

        2. Some don’t use anything for protections (not in a house with kids, I suppose!.. :lol:) John Elliot thinks OP paintings do not need a fixative (as I get it, he didn’t frame his works either…). Dust problem then..?

        3. Floyd has recently said in one of the threads here that the painting he did on canvas three years ago has been holding up well with no framing/fixative. It seems like one doesn’t really need fixing when the painting is done on canvas. It is my impression so far.

        4. The Sennelier Oil Pastel Fixative seems to be not very effective. I haven’t tried it and probably won’t, because some say it only prevents smudging and not scratching, while others who use it claim it doesn’t really protect from smudging very well. Anyway, seems like it’s not the ideal solution.

        5. Jack Brumbaugh who’s been doing OPs for a long while, used to use Kamar Spray Varnish about 10 years ago. Nowadays he uses Krylon UV Archival Varnish. Jack said it doesn’t work with the Senns though.

        6. A Russian oil pastelist told me she uses Royal Talens Oil Pastel Varnish and finds it very effective both against smudging and scratching. She paints with the Senns. But she has only used this varnish on 2 paintings so far.

        7. I have read that some people spray 4 layers of the Senn fixative, then 4 layers of Golden Varnish over that. This method was introduced by Marilynn Brandenburger (an active member of the former Oil Pastel Society) like 10 years ago. She commented:
        “Warning: This finish is still experimental. However, my research — with
        fellow oil pastelists and with the Golden company — convinced me that the
        Golden varnish is compatible with both the Sennelier fixative and the oil
        pastels.”

        8. A guy commenting in Jackson’s art blog (it was an article on varnishing OP paintings) said the following:
        As I mentioned above I have used Montana 94 Acrylic Matt spray for the past few years. I have a Sennellier oil pastel painting hanging with that varnish (2 coats) for the past 3 years with no glass. It’s just as I painted it still. This is the varnish recommended to me by a professional portrait oil pastel painter.

        I have also read about some more complicated methods which I am not going to describe…

        Very interesting info: while reading comments under a Youtube video on OP varnishes, I found this comment:
        I’ve talked to a well known art supplier working with French museums. Apparently, oil pastels do more or less dry after one to three years. After this period, it is possible to use an oil pastel varnish with oil pastels as it kind of interacts with them the same as with oil paint. Varnish gets yellow with time however, so the best is to use a thin layer and to respect the pastel drying period. Concerening the acrylic gels you used, they might be more stable in time due to their synthetic nature.

        I plan to buy the Royal Talens OP Varnish when I get a chance.
        I don’t have many paintings yet, and I have displayed only one. I have framed it but didn’t bother with matting or spacers. I assumed that as long as I don’t use the oily brands like Senns and don’t have extremely many layers that must be okay. I didn’t notice the painting suffered because of being slightly pressed against the glass.

        I feel this question is very important, because I’ve got an impression that dubious solutions with fixing OPs is one of the main reasons seriois artists leave OPs in favor of oils or acrylics.

        I love oil pastels and have created a blog about this medium. While the blog posts are in Russian, still I invite you to get inspired with various artists' beautiful OP paintings in my blog's gallery: https://oilpastelist.wordpress.com/gallery

        #784994
        SarahY
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            I’ve never used fixative or varnish. I can’t see that it’s archival, nor that it adds very much protection. Surely if the colour on the surface is still even slightly movable, anything you layer on top will also be movable! But, take that with a pinch of salt since I have never actually tried it.

            I store my finished paintings covered with a sheet of glassine or wax paper in a big pile in a huge Really Useful Box, and slowly I’m getting the ones I want to sell framed under glass with a matt. If Senneliers touch the glass it’s just awful. The other brands; Neopastel, Specialist, etc, can touch the glass with no issue (unless they’re applied really thickly), but I like the look of the matting. Framing is costly, but I just accept it and cross my fingers that one day I’ll make the money back.

            Glass is the only decent way to protect work in any kind of pastel. Dirt and dust build-up over time affects any unwashable surface, and oil pastels are a MAGNET for dust, pet hair, bird seed husks, you name it. I suppose if I lived in an immaculately kept house with no pets and dusted constantly it wouldn’t be such an issue but I don’t :lol:

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            #784995
            terriks
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                I think a light spray of fixative after a few weeks of the slight hardening/setting that we get from OP’s is about the closest I’ve some to doing anything. I’ve not tried any varnishes at all.

                As you’ve discovered, there’s a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of preserving OP paintings. I’m not really convinced it’s a must-do process – OP’s are such a unique medium. Sometimes I think people who have worked a lot in oils get so used to the idea of having to apply a varnish or some kind of protective top coat, that it’s really hard to adjust to the idea of leaving OP’s alone.

                Sarah is on the right track, IMO. If you really want to protect your work, laying it flat with protective wax paper or glassine works great. Keeps the dust off and UV rays out. If you’re really concerned about smudging over time, and wanting real protection, then glass framing is pretty foolproof. It’s also the most expensive, so you just have to weigh those pros and cons and think about what you’re really wanting to accomplish.

                I’ve no illusions about trying to show or sell my OP stuff; it’s pretty much for me – art for art’s sake. I take much better care of photos and alternative process-type photo prints, because that stuff can end up in shows or art fairs, for sale. And even that isn’t anything I’m really chasing anymore. While I do take reasonable care of everything I do, I’ve become much more Zen about it. :)

                Terri

                Film photographer with special love for alternative photographic processes - especially ones that get my hands dirty!

                #784999
                Mira
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                    Sarah and Terri, thank you very much for your opinion! :) appreciate it!

                    Terri, actually it is important not only when one wants to sell his works, but also when willing to hang some paintings on the wall or give it to somebody as a present. My Dad’s B-day is coming up, and I would like to paint a 30 x40 cm landscape. He lives in another city and I need a safe way to transport it. But it’s not what I’m worried about. If I want the painting to hang on the wall at my parent’s house, I need to make sure no one will accidentally scratch it – they got a cat, by the way :lol:
                    I would also like to display some works at home sometimes. I am not really fond of the idea with framing, so I started looking for options.

                    Storing one’s works is pretty easy. Especially when they are A4 – I just put them in the … what’s it called… those transparent portfolio sheets? Very convenient while I do most of my paintings on A4 :)

                    I love oil pastels and have created a blog about this medium. While the blog posts are in Russian, still I invite you to get inspired with various artists' beautiful OP paintings in my blog's gallery: https://oilpastelist.wordpress.com/gallery

                    #784996
                    terriks
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                        Oh, I’m not saying it’s not important. The wall under glass is the safest IMO. But when budgets matter, that’s not always practical. ;)

                        And shipping prints is a whole other headache!

                        Terri

                        Film photographer with special love for alternative photographic processes - especially ones that get my hands dirty!

                        #784985
                        Rich A
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                            Great topic Mira. I feel there is some misconception when it comes to this area, and it’s something I’m going to talk about in a upcoming youtube video.

                            After I finish a painting, I let it sit out for about a week.. After that I’ll wrap it in Glassine paper and store it vertically in a cupboard. So the artwork is completely protected in a dark, dry environment with only the glassine paper touching the surface. I used to stack them on top of each other, but noticed the weight of the top ones was crushing the bottom ones. So I now store them vertically with a large piece of foam board every 20 or so paintings to keep them straight. The only exception to this is if I have a buyer right away or if it’s a commission.

                            I’ve played around with different fixatives/varnish. In fact I tried a new one by Krylon and it’s a UV archival varnish (matte finish) that comes out of aerosol can like fixative. (It specifically says that it protects acrylic, watercolor, oil pastel, colored pencil, oil and more). After about 3 coats of it, I can see a glare when angled to the light. I don’t like that at all. I tried 2 coats and didn’t get a glare, but the surface is not totally protected either.

                            So like all other fixatives/varnish I have tried, it’s not 100% protection and at best maybe gives me some minimal protection. Like accidentally brushing up against it or something etc.

                            I’ve just accepted that pastels whether they be the oil, soft/hard, chalk, whatever are best protected and shown under glass. Glass gives me the best protection and preserves the fine qualities of the little pastel particles.

                            I also know that after a few months my oil pastel paintings that are not behind glass ( like the ones I do on hard panel) have actually hardened up. They are dry to the touch and pretty stable. So the OP’s do actually harden up after a bit of time. And I live in a house with a dog and kids, and lots of people coming in and out. (kids and their friends). My OP paintings that are not behind glass, look just as great and vibrant as when they were new. I can touch the surface and it’s dry. The ones that have multiple layers/texture with lots of senn for top finish have dried up. I can literally take my hands and run them across with no damage done to the painting.

                            Sarah and I have very similar approach to it. I also feel glass is absolutely best way to protect it, and it makes for a nice presentation when matted and framed.

                            As far as cost goes, I just include the cost of the matting in my final price. I currently get my matting at matboardandmore.com. $25 USD for custom fit mat. The matting will take my 12×16 pastelmat (closer to 11.25 x 15.5) and fit it to a more standard 16×20 size. Easy to find a frame for a 16×20.

                            I’m going to do a video on this and bring out some of my older OP paintings (the ones with no fixative or not under glass) and show just how durable they really are. I think you’ll be surprised actually, especially when you see me drag stuff across the surface.

                            #785000
                            Mira
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                                Wow, Rich, thanks for this great info!!! It’s awesome to get such a clear and detailed answer on the topic.
                                Knowing about this stuff only in theory, but not in practice, I felt like the Krylon varnish is probably the best solution (along with the Royal Talens OP varnish which I would still like to try), but your words made me look at it from a different angle.
                                It’ll be very, very interesting to watch the next video :clap: I am excited to hear more about this!

                                PS: “with a large piece of foam board every 20 or so paintings”… TWENTY!!! :eek: :lol: man, you really are a volume painter! :lol: :thumbsup:
                                (hopefully this phrase – which I picked up from you – doesn’t sound wrong…)

                                I love oil pastels and have created a blog about this medium. While the blog posts are in Russian, still I invite you to get inspired with various artists' beautiful OP paintings in my blog's gallery: https://oilpastelist.wordpress.com/gallery

                                #784997
                                terriks
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                                    Thanks for weighing in on this, Rich. I’m happy to know you’ll talk about this in an upcoming video, because it can cause a lot of confusion when we want to protect our work.

                                    I like the tip about storing the paintings upright. I have enough in a box that I’ve started to consider the issue of weight. My answer has been to keep as many as I can out, posted on the wall. I use simple push-pins – without pushing them through the paper, just slipping the paper’s margin between the plastic edge and the corkboard).

                                    The rest stay layered between wax paper with the oldest (read: worst) on the bottom. :lol: Foam board is cheap but strong – great idea!

                                    Terri

                                    Film photographer with special love for alternative photographic processes - especially ones that get my hands dirty!

                                    #784986
                                    Rich A
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                                        Video is up.

                                        Terri, I think leaving them out in open air like that is good. Allowing them to harden up a little before wrapping them with glassine for longer storage is good. What also helps is a dry, cool climate. Colder the better. My studio has poor insulation so when the temps drop it can get pretty cold in there overnight. That certainly aids in the op’s setting up faster

                                        Mira, I don’t think I’m gonna use that krylon varnish. I’ve tried it on about 5 paintings now and can’t seem to find the right amount to use. Too much and it gets a sheen. Too little and it’s minimal if any real protection.

                                        #784992

                                        I don’t seal anymore as the varnishes I’ve used make the painting glossy. I leave the paintings in the open for at least a week before storing in an assortment of clear pockets. My op’s are harder than the Senns and do dry after a while.

                                        Christel

                                        #785001
                                        Mira
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                                            The video is awesome, Rich! :clap:
                                            It sheds a real light on how it all works! Thanks a lot! :)

                                            I’ve enjoyed it so much I’ve watched it twice today and will probably watch again :lol: I really like the way you talk and explain things and am absolutely sure you will make a fantastic online and offline oil pastel teacher if you want so ;)

                                            I don’t seal anymore as the varnishes I’ve used make the painting glossy. I leave the paintings in the open for at least a week before storing in an assortment of clear pockets. My op’s are harder than the Senns and do dry after a while.

                                            Christel, what about the paintings you display? I bet there are some that hang on the walls in your house. What do you normally do to them – framing/no framing?

                                            I love oil pastels and have created a blog about this medium. While the blog posts are in Russian, still I invite you to get inspired with various artists' beautiful OP paintings in my blog's gallery: https://oilpastelist.wordpress.com/gallery

                                            #784998
                                            terriks
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                                                Thanks for this video, Rich! It was excellent – although I admit that when you rubbed the picture frame over that one with the figure in a dramatic Virabhadrasana I, my stomach dropped two feet. :lol: I love that painting!!!! I also got a chuckle seeing that little heater going back and forth at your feet, since I was standing at my drafting table with my own little heater going at my feet!

                                                I think open air definitely helps the OPs dry out much faster. Lack of storage has forced me into it, but it sounds like a good practice to help them harden up. I’ve been rotating about a dozen at a time on the wall, so will likely keep doing that.

                                                Christel makes a good point about the harder OP’s drying much quicker, too.

                                                As far as normal house dust settling in – I imagine a light wipe with a feather duster once they’ve hardened up would suffice.

                                                Terri

                                                Film photographer with special love for alternative photographic processes - especially ones that get my hands dirty!

                                                #784987
                                                Rich A
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                                                    Thank you both.

                                                    Mira – I kinda dislike the sound of my voice actually…lol..Like when I have to listen to myself when editing, half the time I wanna delete it all and start over. lol

                                                    Terri – Thank you. I figured that would shock people. hahaha.I’m pretty rough with it too. That painting is plenty durable, I’ve had it in different frames and stacked up against other paintings and things unprotected and still looks new. My little heater there is an upgrade to what I had before which was an old radiator style dish.

                                                    I totally agree with leaving it out in open air as long as you can before wrapping them up.

                                                    #784993

                                                    Christel, what about the paintings you display? I bet there are some that hang on the walls in your house. What do you normally do to them – framing/no framing?

                                                    I have only a few op’s hanging, framed and unframed, all with no glass. I dust them off with feather duster, the same as my other oils, ac and wc.

                                                    Christel

                                                    #784988
                                                    flug
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                                                        In my attempts to find something to protect my sketchbook pages from smudging on each other I have used koh i noor fixative, clear pvc glue and the royal talens oil pastel varnish.. (things I had on hand ;) )

                                                        I really like the oil pastel varnish! You can still scratch it of you intend to do so but resists rubbing just fine.. and the colors don’t change :)

                                                        C&C is always welcome!

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