Home › Forums › Explore Media › Oil Painting › The Technical Forum › Do I need to know what it is I’m painting in order to paint it?
- This topic has 13 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by tuscanny Moderator oil pastels.
-
AuthorPosts
-
December 21, 2019 at 3:10 am #481630
This happens to me all the time, whether my reference is a photograph or a real life scene I’m painting. I’ll be laying in the major features of a girl’s hand, tucked into the shadow side waves of her skirt. Just the curve of her wrist is caught by the sun, a sliver of warm color, and a sparkle from her bracelet.
Later I zoom in on the picture. That little glint of light that seemed to represent the figure’s graceful delicacy… Is actually the edge of a gaudy knockoff Rolex. I step back and oh yeah, how did I not notice that? I can’t unsee it, it’s so obvious.. So…Do I paint the watch? Or take it and its delightful glimmer out altogether?
There’s a little crescent moon of gold hovering inexplicably over the girl’s bare wrist when I’m done, and I wonder if I even need to know what I’m painting to tell a story about one surreal sunny afternoon. It’s a weird feeling needless to say, to paint more clearly by not really looking too close.
December 21, 2019 at 3:38 am #921655Try drawing and painting from life and go from there.
December 21, 2019 at 8:27 am #921658Painting 101 Paint what you see NOT what you know.
December 21, 2019 at 2:38 pm #921647For many people, the art of painting is taking what you see and rearranging it in ways that are pleasing (or even challenging). You can, if you wish, decide to express a deeper understanding of the subject, explore the poetics of the subject, make a political statement regarding the subject, or even riff on visual elements that you see or even just imagine in the subject. For that matter, you can paint with no subject at all (abstraction) and that’s perfectly OK too. Nothing is off limits, so you can’t go wrong painting the way you want and what you want.
It sounds like you’re responding to elements in the reference image that catch your eye and appeal to you. Good for you! I’d love to see this painting of yours…
[FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
[FONT=Palatino]
“Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]
December 21, 2019 at 11:16 pm #921653Like Edward Hopper said, paint what you see. I’ve often painted scenes, just focusing on the colors and values, only to realize later some of the details that I was actually painting.
A good technique for training yourself to paint or draw what you see is to copy images that are upside down.
December 22, 2019 at 12:33 am #921648The advice here seems to vary depending on whether the painter giving it is a realist or an expressive painter. Often these require different approaches.
[FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
[FONT=Palatino]
“Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]
December 22, 2019 at 2:42 am #921654I’ve always appreciated a remark attributed to John Singer Sargent on painting en plein air; “I look for a comfortable place to sit,…then I look up.”
There’s another about the landscape that I’ve lost the exacting wording of, but in essence; “You can move or omit an inconvenient tree or fence, but you must be truthful about the hills, mountains, water and landmarks.”
I place reference photos in three degrees of experience and gesalt;
1. The photograph you took yourself standing in that place.
2. The photogragh of a place you’ve been-to and experienced yourself, but someone else framed and shot. Perhaps a historial view, or a different season.
3. The photograph of an unknown place to you.Radical Fundemunsellist
December 22, 2019 at 4:45 am #921649You don’t need to know what you are painting but you do need to know why.
Dave.
“What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
— Allen Ginsberg
Are you ready for a Journey?
PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.December 22, 2019 at 8:34 am #921650There is no one right answer or approach. The “draw what you see, not what you know” approach is intuitively understood by beginners to mean that they should focus on patterns of light and dark rather than higher order knowledge of the subject, but it’s advice that many realistic artists will eventually reverse, at least to some extent. Michelangelo couldn’t have accomplished the things he did if he hadn’t studied anatomy in order to better know what he was seeing. Generally speaking, the more we know about the subject, the better we can represent it in a traditional realistic manner.
I’ve done some paintings based on old snapshots where all I have for reference is a small photograph. Blowing it up into a realistic larger image can’t be done simply by trying to copy exactly the patterns of light and dark. This can be problematic when the photograph doesn’t actually provide you enough information to know what some small detail is. I ultimately have to decide what it is I’m seeing so that I’ll know how to best represent it.
In any case, we don’t actually see in 2D images so we’re never actually drawing what we see when working from life. We’re always taking what we know and converting it to an image, but we can choose to focus on different aspects of what we know.
December 22, 2019 at 1:04 pm #921651AnonymousSquawktopoose,
what could be wrong with painting a Rolex knockoff? ‘specially after you
just delighted in it’s glimmer!December 23, 2019 at 11:44 am #921657I subscribe to the “paint what you know, not what you see” school.
To me it’s the obvious and correct approach.I heard a saying once. At first it made no sense to me. It sounded backwards.
“You can’t see something until you know what it is.”The truth of this statement can be seen easily, if you give some text to copy, to a speaker of a foreign language. The letters will be recognizable, but poorly formed. The letter and word spacing will be off. It will take a long time to do it, as the writer is essentially drawing pictures of letters. Not knowing what the words actually mean, and just copying what they see, results in barely legible writing.
On the other hand, a native speaker can dash off a note in seconds, with hurried and inconsistent letter forms, and it can usually be read by any other native speaker, easily.
Just an example. Not to be taken as 100% true, as some people’s scrawl is readable to nobody but themselves. But you can still see the difference between their writing and the writing of someone copying letters.
If I don’t know what something is, I can’t accurately see – or paint it.
my art page: http://marcfriedlander.com/Art.html
December 23, 2019 at 12:17 pm #921646While we do not necessarily need to “know” what we are painting, when we do then we have the power to change it and make choices about it. When we do not know what it is we are painting, then our choices about how to represent it are much more limited.
- Delo DelofashtDecember 23, 2019 at 1:43 pm #921652You know, I’ve run into problems of this sort fairly often. For whatever reason, I’ve done a number of paintings based on 19th century photographs — and I’m the kind of painter who likes to get lost in all the fussy details, not the kind who deals in broad brushstrokes and bold gestures.
Just about every old photo will have a passage that will set you to wondering: Just what the hell IS that thing?
Take peasant costume, for example. Old photos don’t have the resolution to show that the shawls are held in place by shawl pins, but you can tell that a pin must be there by the way the material hangs. So there’s nothing for it but to research what those pins looked like.
Realistic 19th century paintings often have details that you can’t see in the photos. So they serve as good reference material. Bouguereau has been of particular aid to me.
In short: You have to try to paint BOTH what you see and what you know (through deduction and research) to be there.
December 23, 2019 at 7:14 pm #921656You know, I’ve run into problems of this sort fairly often. For whatever reason, I’ve done a number of paintings based on 19th century photographs — and I’m the kind of painter who likes to get lost in all the fussy details, not the kind who deals in broad brushstrokes and bold gestures.
Just about every old photo will have a passage that will set you to wondering: Just what the hell IS that thing?
Take peasant costume, for example. Old photos don’t have the resolution to show that the shawls are held in place by shawl pins, but you can tell that a pin must be there by the way the material hangs. So there’s nothing for it but to research what those pins looked like.
Realistic 19th century paintings often have details that you can’t see in the photos. So they serve as good reference material. Bouguereau has been of particular aid to me.
In short: You have to try to paint BOTH what you see and what you know (through deduction and research) to be there.
I hear you with the what is that thought.
In Rembrandt’s “Night Watch” painting there is a character between the angelic glowing woman and butted up against the left of the 2 foremost characters. He’s somewhat crouching down and his face is hidden from view.
For the longest time I couldn’t “see” what was going on. It looked like his head was made from a crystal ball supported by a weird crescent collar.
I searched and searched to solve the mystery. I thought maybe the person was a witch:) Finally I showed someone at work. “It’s a helmet.” Doh!My first drawing after a 30 year hiatus was of a silver plated bowl. Heavy patina.
As I was drawing the shapes I suddenly realized I was drawing myself in the reflection. I know my accuracy would have suffered if I had known from the beginning.
The mixpaintdraw guy mare carder I think is his name, has an exercise where you get your pallet ready and go into the exercise with the goal of creating a painting that you will NOT LIKE. The gist is never blend. One stroke and leave it period till you cover your support.
In addition to my other exercises I’m going to do this. And I will post it with lotsa pride because it will be hard to do and still keep my heart in the game for the painting I think.
And then I will sell it to the art collector monkeys that pay big bucks for trash.
Can you imagine buying a roll of duct tape and then a banana using it to pay for your art education at a university?There has to be some serious laundering or a level of self deception that frankly is one of the most astonishing things I can conceive of.
One man show titled “A watermelon for your Bentley”.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Register For This Site
A password will be e-mailed to you.
Search