I was interested in using zinsser to prime some of my canvases and panels with it. Here is what the techs at Gamblin had to say. I think I agree with them. I have used zinsser to prime walls before mural work but never for my fine art paintings.

from Gamblin:

Dear William,

Zinsser makes a B-I-N Shellac-Base Primer and a B-I-N Synthetic Shellac Primer. B-I-N Shellac, a true shellac, is quite brittle, so I wouldn’t consider it a good material for a flexible painting surface like stretched canvas. A true shellac-base primer will go over and stick to a dry oil painting, but it won’t be very flexible.

Synthetic Shellac is most likely a latex primer, more flexible than a true shellac. Still, in general terms, commercial paints like these are designed to hold up for years, maybe a couple of decades, but not centuries. Our Oil Ground is designed to hold up beneath Artists Oil Colors for centuries. Furthermore, oil colors bond to an oil primer both mechanically and chemically, while adhering to dissimilar materials only mechanically.

Either of Zinsser’s B-I-N Primers would likely hold up better on a rigid panel (non-flexing like a wall mural) than stretched canvas.

I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Regards,

Dave

Your paint dries abnormally or it lost binder due to a high absorbency of this primer?

They were nearly dry to the touch in less than 2 hours!
Has anybody else run into this problem??

I haven’t ever used this stuff for painting but if they dry to touch that fast then I would guess that the primer is rapidly absorbing the oil from your paint film.

I was turned on to making my own panels and priming with Zinsser Coverstain. As noted in prior posts, there are a variety of products from Zinsser.

Originally, I had pursued oil-based primers to use in priming panels vs. acrylic gesso. I wanted the slick feel and the less absorbancy.

Sherwin WIlliams had made available an oil-based primer, no longer available where I live. Another professional artist, Stapleton Kearns, turned me onto Zinsser.

The first gallon I bought resulted in the sunken in and more rapid drying that you note. I do not remember what the name of that can of Zinsser was. Presently, I use Zinsser Cover Stain Primer. It’s notably better. I no longer experience the issues you noted, sunken oil, the *appearance* of more rapid drying (because the paint is getting absorbed by the ground). It still has to oxidize in order to polymerize the fatty chains.

I’m not a scientist. I leave that to others. But what i can tell you is I have had a similar experience. I love making my own panels this way and they are perfect for me. WIth the right Zinsser (Cover Stain), it has been a good surface to paint on.

That being said, the gallon I have is from a year ago. It’s possible that formulation changes may be an issue. But I plan on purchasing another gallon of Zinsser Coverall and continuing with this process.

Note: I have tried other grounds including lead priming. The lead grounds are so thick to work with, let alone dangerous in terms of toxicity and clean up. So I don’t do that.

I’ve not found a better oil primer, and I just refuse to use what the market calls “Gesso” (which is NOT gesso but acrylic paint).

If I could afford it, I’d avoid making my own panels. But I cannot. Masters Touch or New Traditions Lead primed panels are out of my leage. Even Raymar art, which are great panels, are out of my price range. When you sell for peanuts, your cost of materials have to be controlled. So I cannot afford to buy a $40 16″ x 20″ lead primed panel, couple it with a closed corner water gilded frame and sell it for $300. Nor can I afford to make throwaways on the $40 panels. If I was making big bugs like Schmid, that’d be a different story.

But other professional artists, like Stapleton Kearns, Kevin MacPherson, etc., make their own panels of very good quality and for a price point you can’t beat.

So look at the label of what’s on your can of Zinnser. If it’s not Cover Stain, get a quart and give it a try. Or try to find a *real* oil-based primer (not water-based or other petroleum distillate-based) and try again.

PS. If anyone knows of a good Oil-based primer, I”m all open. I wish I knew what Frederix / Raphael / et al used in their oil-based canvas primers. If I wished for anythign, it would be a little slicker surface. I’ve never tried a New Traditions lead primed panel a la Schmid, but I hear it is very slick.

I hope this info helps. You can also check out Stapleton Kearns’s blog. This is where I learned to make my panels from.

My Blog

I have yet to use it, but I purchased a can of “Kilz Original,” their Interior Oil-Base primer/sealer/stainblocker, for priming panels, after researching the issue here at WC. The Zinnser priming products and Kilz come in a variety of formulations, both oil-based and water-based. I am only speculating here, but I would not be surprised to find that the sinking in you’ve experienced is a result of using the water-based type of primer. When I researched the use of Kilz, those who used it recommended the oil based version for priming panels.

Note also that the comment from Gamblin refers to a shellac product, which may not be the issue here.

Zinsser Cover-Stain is their oil-based primer. It has an alkyd for helping with fast drying. (Note: Zinsser is now a Rust-o-leum owned product).

As the prior poster added, there are WATER-based primers out there, to be avoided.

I made that mistake once, too.

The MSDS says it has calcium carbonate, a magnesium silicate, and a modified alkyd. Pretty straight-forward, I think.

Of course, you could always go with Gamblin or Williamsburg Oil-based Grounds. I was looking at their info and outside of lengthy recommended drying times (up to two weeks) and cost (far more costly than Zinsser per ounce), they are good products, too.

Get a small quart of Zinsser Cover-Stain and give it a whirl.

My Blog

Dreamer and Annie – Thanks so much – this is helpful. I tried using retouch varnish on the dull paint. It helped a little, but not enough to rescue the piece. I obviously bought the wrong product – will try the one you recommend.

Hey, Linda, make sure you do further research before buying a product based on my thoughts! I’m still pretty new at all this, and as I mentioned, I’ve not yet tried the product I bought. I just relayed some of what I understood from my own earlier research.You may be able to find more info in the Technical Forum.

Edited to add: I notice that Dreamer seems to have had some experience with primers and if I were you, I’d take his advice.

FYI, Daniel Smith also makes an oil-based primer – I think it’s lead – but I’ve never used it and don’t know the cost. Utrecht apparently also makes one, and it looks reasonably priced to me, but again, I have no experience with it. http://www.utrechtart.com/Utrecht-Oil-Priming-Material–White-MP-02039-001-i1000322.utrecht