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  • #992421
    Seth Fiction
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        Hey guys, loving Wet Canvas since I joined, and thought I would bug ya with some questions concerning oil paint. So, I’ve become extremely interesting in the layer process of oil and thinning oil paint down to achieve a kind of watercolor look. Turner did this frequently, as you probably already know, because of his talent with watercolors. Does anyone out there have any advice to achieve this look in a structurally safe manner? Are there mediums I should look into, or a technique I should use, to get the best results possible?

        Thanks for all your help …

        #1214529
        yellow_oxide
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            I don’t know if it’s structurally sound, but Maurice Sapiro does pour paintings[/URL] based on the idea behind viscosity printing.

            #1214531

            I would suggest really clean/light oil and high-quality turps.
            Also use brush pressure to keep the paint layer as thin as possible, and rags to pull off thick paint layers so as to maintain transparency.
            Finally, your ground should be brilliantly white, smooth and non-absorbent.
            That would be what I would do.

            #1214515
            Ron Francis
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                And transparent paint.
                Don’t thin with solvent though. A standard medium would be 50/50 oil and solvent, and use as little as possible to get the effect you need.

                Ron
                www.RonaldFrancis.com

                #1214525
                Dcam
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                    I used to just call it an “oil Wash” painting. It can be very nice for tonal paintings. Good advice here from the members.

                    #1214532

                    Oh, 1 more thing I should have mentioned- (and you probably already know), oil painting is generally a “dark to light” paint layer application, while water is generally a “light to dark” one. So, IF you want to truly imitate the watercolor method, you might have to do a fair amount of your painting in stages- letting your light, transparent underpainting dry enough so that your darker next layer will not lift off the lower layer.
                    I would say giving real thought to your painting stages beforehand will pay off too. Hope this helps. :)

                    #1214516
                    Ron Francis
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                        oil painting is generally a “dark to light” paint layer application

                        I’ve never really understood why oil painting would be regarded as dark to light.
                        I don’t think it’s the best practice to paint light over dark because paint becomes more transparent over time.

                        Ron
                        www.RonaldFrancis.com

                        #1214512
                        OK
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                            Light over Dark is important when working Alla Prima otherwise its not vital.

                            :wave: Dave.

                            “What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
                            — Allen Ginsberg
                            Are you ready for a Journey?
                            PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.

                            #1214517
                            Ron Francis
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                                Light over Dark is important when working Alla Prima otherwise its not vital.

                                Can you explain please Dave?

                                Ron
                                www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                #1214533

                                If you are painting traditionally in oils, (“realistically”), dark to light is how you correctly model form.
                                There are exceptions of course, like with placing shadow accents, ect, but dark to light is the general way oil painting is done, whether painting directly or indirectly.
                                You lay in the shadows/darker values first, and work your way up to the lights.
                                This is the way it is, it doesn’t work or look right the other way.
                                Now if you are painting in modernist fashion, you can get away with it more so, because it does not require realistic representation and modeling the form.

                                Painting light to dark is one of the primary mistakes most novice oil painters make. They wonder why their painting doesn’t “look right”. It is because of their paint application. :)

                                #1214513
                                OK
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                                    Can you explain please Dave?

                                    Hi Ron, when working alla prima it’s virtually impossible to paint a dark on top of a light colour with out contaminating the dark, the light will just mix into the dark.
                                    It’s usual to paint the darks thinly and the lights thickly so this also adds to the difficulty, if you have misplaced a light stroke you can adjust it by pushing the dark sideways into the light, it’s possible to make quite big corrections to edges this way, if you try to lay the dark on top you will just change the tone and colour of the dark. Because it’s usual to paint the darks thinly it’s easy to apply thick lights over them. Usually it looks better if you keep details out of the shadows and reserve the strongest details and colours for the lights so this all adds up to the same sort of thing.

                                    :wave: Dave.

                                    “What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
                                    — Allen Ginsberg
                                    Are you ready for a Journey?
                                    PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.

                                    #1214534

                                    It is a little difficult to explain verbally, but when you come to a place, let’s say while painting a portrait, where you are trying to describe the point at which there is the changing of value on the cheek for example.
                                    If you try to paint the middletone/light area first, and then lay in at the edge of the middletone a shadow/darker value, it will not work well/look right.

                                    Try modeling in oil paint something basic, like a ball shape in monochrome. You will see.

                                    Now one might say then, “what about glazes, that is darker value over a lighter one?”

                                    Yes, but note that the underpainting was modeled from dark to light generally. And note too, that if you are painting into that glaze, which is commonly done and necessary, you then lay a lighter value on top of your glaze, and so on.

                                    Hope this makes sense. :)

                                    #1214535

                                    I should add this- the reason light to dark doesn’t “look right” is because shadows areas recede and light areas advance.

                                    So laying in the lighter values so that they are on top of the shadow areas creates the illusion of the form advancing toward the light source.

                                    #1214518
                                    Ron Francis
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                                        I mostly block in the dark and light areas and knit or blend them together.
                                        I guess I must be a novice.
                                        In the end, if the right colours are in the right places, then I don’t think it matters how you get there.

                                        But I’m mainly an indirect painter, as far as Alla Prima goes, I was specifically wanting to know the actual technique of applying paint. I mean, is it that you apply a darker wash and add lights into that paint. Or is it that you just start with the shadows and that helps you visualise things more easily?
                                        That is, the lighter paint isn’t actually painted into, or over, darker paint?

                                        Ron
                                        www.RonaldFrancis.com

                                        #1214536

                                        Do you paint a highlight and then surround it with a light or middletone?
                                        No. You apply the highlight on top of the middletone/light area.

                                        Also, even when “”blocking in” don’t you start with shadow areas. and then apply lighter values? That is the way most do. As far as the “butting up against one another” of two different values, even with blending, the lighter value should rest on top of the edge of the the darker value.

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