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  • #451613
    Watercollar
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        I bought a few tubes of Turner watercolours a while ago mostly to supplement my Ultramarine blue stock since I use a lot of it.

        I used the Turner Ultramarine Blue Deep in quite a few paintings (alonside with DS and Holbein) and didn’t noticeany “student grade” features about it (low pigment load or chalky drying…).
        Today I did a “handprint style” tinting test of 4 different PB29 Ultramarine Blue paints: Turner, Daniel Smith, WN Pro, WN Cotman. I had some degree of difficulty measuring the exact amount of paint to be dissolved and therefore I repeated the test with larger quantities.
        In both tests, the Turner paint came second after DS, equal if not slightly stronger than WN pro and miles from Cotman which appeared by far the weakest.

        There aren’t too many interenet references or relevant reviews of the Turner Watercolour paints.
        If anything, the few opinions I came across are contradictory and mostly unsupported by tests or even rational explanations (mostly statements like: “poor pigment loading”, “student grade”!” or the opposite… “very pigmented!”…).

        I would like to invite those of you who have done any tests or swatches or had positive or negative experiences with these paints to relate their findings and opinions in this thread.

        Since I’m not a brand loyal person, I’m keen on figuring out the best in every paint line.
        I don’t plan to buy all my paints from Turner but since they’re so cheap (ultramarine 15ml tube is £3.70 in UK) it would be useful to figure out their true value.

        Sebastian.

        (C&C Welcomed.)

        #568604
        Watercollar
        Default

            I have tested and used some Turner Watercolours recently – only single pigment paints with reliable (lightfast) pigments. For those of you interested these are my observations so far:

            Some paints are appropriately pigmented others are not. Generally I haven’t noticed any chalkyness or white sludge sediments to suggest excessive amounts of fillers. On some swatches I occasionally seen tiny specks of something very bright (like a tiny diamond) – not sure what this means, brightener?…
            Vehicle separation found in almost every tube I bought. I had to buy some kitchen skewers especially to stirr up Turner tubes before use. In some cases stirring didn’t do the job because the whole tube was badly separated. Air bubbles are very common and the worst: inconsistent quantities of paint in tubes! Some are only three quarters filled.
            Since all tubes from many other brands came in pristine shape, it is clearly a Turner QC problem not a supplier problem (Jacksons). Since me walking to the post office costs ten time more than all the tubes involved, I decided not to send them back.

            Paints I tried so far:
            Ultramarine Deep PB29 – very good concentration, same hue as DS, French Ultramarine, not too big on granulation and more staining than other brands.
            Prussian Blue PB27 – Black in masstone. Very good and strong. Lovely in tints, very staining.
            Dioxazine Violet PV23 – properly pigmented, it appears slightly darker/less saturated than W&N version.
            Indanthrone Blue PB60 – this is the most desaturated version of this pigment there is… that was confirmed when I saw it among Jane Blundell’s PB60 swatches. I guess this is more of a gray than a blue…
            Mars Violet PR101 – Nice granulation, very opaque, amost pink in tints.
            Pyrrole Scarlet PO73 – Very good, solid paint. This is the “red shade” of the pigment – neither a proper scarlet nor an orange. Not a versatile mixer.
            Turquoise Blue PB28 – I was very positively surpirsed with this – it’s genuine Cobalt – nice and powdery, good pigmentation. Lovely color and a very unusuall offering of PB28 which is normally Cobalt Blue. This paint is in their second price (series) out of four! Very strange – their other Cobalts are in series 4. Other brands now offer PB28 as Turquoise.
            Transparent Red Oxide PR101 – this is really a Burnt Sienna – almost same hue with WN Burnt Sienna but nowhere near as concentrated.
            Transparent Yellow Oxide PY42 – This is a disgrace and an insult to Yellow Ocre! Very gummy and very weak and hardly reactivates from a three drops of Glycerin treated pan.
            Raw Sienna PR101, PY42 – a decent, reddish Raw Sienna – not as red as DS Raw Sienna.
            Perm. Yellow (Benzimida) PY154 – this is a nice primary yellow in hue. I’m not very good with yellows so I can’t tell much about this paint except that it is ok.. not gummy or chalky.
            Quinacridone Red PR209 – this one is another joke… it’s so weak, at first I thought they forgot to add the pigment… :lol: Very gummy, less pigmented than the worst Cotman paint. I know Quin reds are a little thin in general but this version is pretty bad. Credit to Turner for being honest and resisting the temptation of filling it with chalk.
            Phthalo Green YS PG36 – very good, strong but with the usuall presentation problems. This one came in a tube that almost blew in my face when I first opened it.

            These are all the paints I tried so far. As a general note, I haven’t noticed any particular tendency for these paints to be more opaque than other brands. One youtube reviewer pointed they may be more opaque… But he also said that Holbein are amongst the most opaque which is not true.
            Some of these Turners are remarkably good and very cheap. For me, this means that I can freely use decent paint on large formats without the stress of depleting precious resources.

            Sebastian.

            (C&C Welcomed.)

            #568595
            Cyntada
            Default

                I haven’t use any Turner paints, just wanted to thank you for taking time to write up your notes. It’s always good to have detailed, knowledgeable info about paint, especially quality lines that are less costly.

                By the way, I have tried PR209 in two different brands, it was gutless in both Maimeri Blu and M. Graham’s formulations. I think it’s the nature of the beast in this case.

                CK =)
                I take great comfort in knowing that my genuine typos will probably be blamed on some device's autocorrect. :angel:
                DIY art supplies, sketches, and more: cyntada.com / @cyntada
                #568605
                Watercollar
                Default

                    Thank you Cyntada! I might have been a little harsh on that Quin. Red :)
                    They do a lot more single pigment paints that can potentially be very good – there’s a big offering in the red/purple area including PR256, PV19, PR122, PR177 plus other interesting pigments like Manganese Violet and Cobalts Green, Teal, Turquoise Magnetic Black Pbk11 and many Cadmiums.
                    I don’t know how good they are. I only came across a reference from an Amazon reviewer saying one of the Cadmium Reds is impressive. There aren’t any reliable reviews on this line except for the sponsored artists at Jerry’s and Jacksons.

                    Sebastian.

                    (C&C Welcomed.)

                    #568600
                    LuckyLaura
                    Default

                        I’ve tried several colours and I definitely would not call them student grade. They are artist grade. I think they are great for the price and they are one of the few brands besides DS that carry some Maya colours which are fun to play with.

                        I think part of the reason for the dearth of reviews is that they are not easy to come by. And also they made an error naming themselves Turner as when you search Turner watercolours you of course get the paintings! :P

                        #568598
                        briantmeyer
                        Default

                            What seems to define artist grade is mostly listing the pigment codes. If the pigment codes are good, it’s going to work.

                            Those who refuse to do that, are the same ones adding fillers and junk, and skimping on pigment required.

                            The two student grade lines which list pigment codes are comparable to other artist grade lines, the main difference is they don’t use ox gall, but this is true for some actually artist grade brands. Of course they are not as good as artist grade made by the same brand, but each brand varies in quality and properties in many ways, and they are just as good or better than some things you can get in artist grade.

                            #568601
                            Minerva C
                            Default

                                What seems to define artist grade is mostly listing the pigment codes. If the pigment codes are good, it’s going to work.

                                Those who refuse to do that, are the same ones adding fillers and junk, and skimping on pigment required.

                                The two student grade lines which list pigment codes are comparable to other artist grade lines, the main difference is they don’t use ox gall, but this is true for some actually artist grade brands. Of course they are not as good as artist grade made by the same brand, but each brand varies in quality and properties in many ways, and they are just as good or better than some things you can get in artist grade.

                                Which two student grade lines ate you referring to? there are more than two who lists pigment codes.

                                C

                                #568599
                                briantmeyer
                                Default

                                    I know of Cotman and Van Gogh.

                                    #568606
                                    Watercollar
                                    Default

                                        There are no exact standards to “student” and “professional” set by anyone. Any paint lines marketed as either should provide pigment information. DR Aquafine do too.
                                        Pigment concentration (or pigment to vehicle ratio) is perhaps the most relevant difference between various paints and paint lines.
                                        You can always dilute a paint down but you can’t increase its tinting strength, masstone darkness or other parameter set by its low pigment availability.
                                        The quality of the pigment used is another matter – there’s the possibility that some manufacturers may procure cheaper, lower grade pigment stocks. This is reflected in permanence failures for known lightfast pigments (check PB27, PB60, PV23 or even some Cobals on Handprint).

                                        Sebastian.

                                        (C&C Welcomed.)

                                        #568602
                                        Minerva C
                                        Default

                                            Ok. Other student grade paints with pigment information are Maimeri Venezia, Schmincke Akademie and Lukas Studio.

                                            C

                                            #568596
                                            Cyntada
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                                                So does Grumbacher Academy[/URL], which was the first non-kiddy paints I had. They’re actually pretty decent to work with, inexpensive and receive little mention.

                                                Bonus points to them for stating straight up that Rose Madder Hue (made with PR83 :eek:) is “highly fugitive and should not be used in works that will be exposed to intense light or sunshine.”

                                                CK =)
                                                I take great comfort in knowing that my genuine typos will probably be blamed on some device's autocorrect. :angel:
                                                DIY art supplies, sketches, and more: cyntada.com / @cyntada
                                                #568597
                                                pherank
                                                Default

                                                    I find it a little odd that Turner is using Daniel Smith naming conventions for some of their pigments: “Interference” and “Maya” colors (DS uses the term Mayan Genuine). Not sure what the need for that is, besides the point that the terms weren’t copyrighted by DS (apparently).

                                                    #568603
                                                    Kosmon
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                                                        I find it a little odd that Turner is using Daniel Smith naming conventions for some of their pigments: “Interference” and “Maya” colors (DS uses the term Mayan Genuine). Not sure what the need for that is, besides the point that the terms weren’t copyrighted by DS (apparently).

                                                        ‘Interference’ is a descriptive term, similar in usage to (though not synonymous with) ‘iridescent’ or ‘pearlescent’. It’s not brand-specific, anyone can make interference paints, and several companies do.

                                                        Maya Blue is a historic color recipe from Mesoamerica. I only know Mayan Blue Genuine from the DS PrimaTek line, which appears to be just what it says on the tin, an attempt to reproduce that blue in something mimicking the historical way.

                                                        I see DS has several other (non-PrimaTek) colors with ‘Maya” in the color name, but I don’t know what that’s about.

                                                        Kos

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                                                        #568607
                                                        calvin_0
                                                        Default

                                                            [B]Quinacridone Red PR209[/B] – this one is another joke… it’s so weak, at first I thought they forgot to add the pigment… :lol: Very gummy, less pigmented than the worst Cotman paint. I know Quin reds are a little thin in general but this version is pretty bad. Credit to Turner for being honest and resisting the temptation of filling it with chalk.

                                                            is it possible for you to show a picture Turner’s PR209? I’m curious on how it compare to Holbein’s..

                                                            #1316732

                                                            May I ask if anyone here knows if Turner watercolours are vegan or not?

                                                            Paint in Hiding, overcoming limits to enjoy passion.
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