Home Forums Explore Media Clay Trying to make flexable Cold Porcelain

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #992476
    BugFolk
    Default

        Hi, I’m new to this forum. I’ve lurked here before, but couldn’t find a direct answer for my predicament, so I went ahead and decided to register and ask about it.

        I make flower and leaf magnets and pins that are near paper thin, or near the thickness of the real thing. My aim is to sell these commercially in some local art and craft stores. So far I’ve gotten into one store.
        So far I’ve worked with modena/Lumina (was told by Activa they are the same product.) Those clays give me what I need, the flexibility and strength to get real thin. Unfortunately in MN, these are hard to find. I have to either order online or get the local art stores to order the product for me.

        I’m looking to make my own to save on costs as well as fill in the gaps between orders. I’ve made a couple batches following one of the basic recipes that asked for 1 cup white elmer’s glue, 1 cup cornstarch, 2 tbsp of baby oil, 2 tbsp vinegar and microwaving/stirring at 15-30 sec intervals. Then kneading with lotion. The second batch I tried the ponds cold cream recommended.
        The result produced a very soft clay that is workable, somewhat sticky. I’ve mixed in more lotion to get something that does not glue itself to the molds. The resulting product looks promising, except one major flaw; it’s very brittle. Instead of bending, it snaps in half. For my projects this won’t work. (Having dedicate but break proof flowers and leaves is a strong selling point.)

        I need to know is there something I am missing? Do I need to add something to make the clay dry more vinyl like than hard plastic?

        Another thing I noticed; the clay takes much longer to dry than the commercial products I’ve tried. I’m not sure if I like or not like it, because I can see it going either way for me.

        —-
        Some things I am trying tonight (won’t tell until tomorrow if effective)

        – Mixing clay with acrylic paint retarding media (this did neat effects with modena clay, semi dissolving it and delaying its drying time)
        – mixing with acetone (does something very similar to above)
        – microwaving it for another 15 seconds – made the clay more rubbery – cracking and almost ruined.
        – mix in more acetone, ponds cold cream and add some more glue – Resulting clay seemed to be salvaged, now feels very much like working with play dough crossed with Lumina clay. The color also shifted from being glue white to a more gray translucent, more like the lumina clay. It’s now harder to press into the molds, but seems better? I’m hoping this batch dries less brittle.

        #1215836
        BugFolk
        Default

            Just an update. I think what I did helped?

            I made a few test petals and am waiting for them to dry. When they dry I bend the heck out of them and pull at them. That gives me an idea what kind of abuse the final project can take.

            So far I’ve noticed more flexibility with the alterations I did than without. I might have magnet safe flowers, but still not sure on pins, earrings, etc, until everything fully dries. Anyways I thought I should post a photo to show what kind of things I am doing:

            #1215831
            LynneDe
            Default

                Hi BugFolk,

                I noticed in another post you said you use real flowers to make the molds for commercial production. Real petals are thin, and you want that thinness. I agree!

                I found though that you can thin the edges leaving the centers and bases thicker giving the same effect but strengthening the overall product.

                You might want to give that idea a try, especially for daisies and black-eyed Susan’s or elongated petals that don’t have much support.

                And as to the CP recipes, which changes did you make that you liked the results of? Can you give the exact recipe on how and what you did? I’d like to try things out myself. Thanks!

                Blessings! LynneDe

                As I will never take this exact path again may I not leave a kind word unspoken or a kind deed undone. May my life count for good, may the world be better for my having been in it when the final reckoning is accomplished. Blessings, LynneDe

                #1215838
                BugFolk
                Default

                    I’m not sure if it turned out. The stuff was a dream to sculpt, press into molds, removed easy, I could manipulate the shape better, but dried brittle and semi-crumbly like beeswax. So I’m still looking.

                    As far as amounts, I go by touch and how the clay feels, so not an exact measurement. I will either add a few drops and knead into the clay or rub on the surface with either my fingers or a clay tool.

                    So far what I’ve observed any of these will thin the clay:

                    Water/ saliva – use sparingly. Only to neaten up edges or add slight tackiness. Mixed will make the clay flake apart and cause it to rub like eraser shavings. It also makes the clay more brittle. I do not recommend water at all if needed for more than just rubbing off a rough surface on a small area. I suspect the other has some oil so less harsh, or just easier to moderate/ or I am just lazy or working in my bed before going to sleep.

                    Oil/ hand lotion: makes the clay smooth, possibly greasy. Makes it easier to remove from mold, but harder to press onto shallow molds. Also makes it harder to stick to itself.

                    Acrylic paint drying retarder Smooths out cracks/ makes kneading easier. Delays drying time. Also makes the clay stickier. I use this when sculpting petals or working directly onto something. Caution: As the clay dries, it can crack if the clay gets flexed or moved before fully drying. If that happens, then the area needs to be reworked or kneaded again. Overall, the clay becomes more paste like. (I suspect this is the “glycerin” suggested in some recipes, though not food safe.)

                    Acetone/ Acetone-like substances – dissolves the glue? Makes it softer like above, possibly sticky again. Seemed to salvage an over-baked batch.

                    More glue: Softer, stickier, fills in cracks, may save some weak spots. I just recently started using this.

                    —–
                    Things I’m going to try:

                    Use Golden Acrylic body medium as an amendment or as part of the glue mix in the next batch

                    Try tacky glue or modge podge instead of elmar’s glue.

                    #1215837
                    BugFolk
                    Default

                        Site delayed when posting/ editing. Oops.

                        #1215839
                        BugFolk
                        Default

                            Oops. Post #2.

                            #1215832
                            LynneDe
                            Default

                                Eileen’s Tacky glue is used in some of the bread clay recipes I have, and it is more flexible when dried, so it might work in cold porcelain, worth a try anyway.

                                Blessings, LynneDe

                                As I will never take this exact path again may I not leave a kind word unspoken or a kind deed undone. May my life count for good, may the world be better for my having been in it when the final reckoning is accomplished. Blessings, LynneDe

                                #1215840
                                BugFolk
                                Default

                                    The finished pieces seem to have set. The hardness is much like ceramic or, well, porcelain. I’m going ahead and finishing them off with pastels/ paint and do a test run with magnets. I’ll give a few of them to friends and family.

                                    It seems one batch I used is not as strong as the other. (Elmar’s school glue vs. glue all) The Glue all with vinegar used was better than the one I tried with school glue + lemon juice. Some of the pieces finished weak and brittle. Most seem okay. They survive being dropped on the floor, picked up, rubbed and regular handling. I can’t bend or flex them. If done, then they will crack. Depending on the individual piece, this can take a bit of effort to do. The pieces are stronger than they look overall.
                                    ———–
                                    Overall:
                                    – School Glue, not buying again even if it is the only glue our Walmart had and walmart being the closest place selling the 1 cup glue bottle sizes.
                                    – Glue All – okay product. Dries firm, ceramic like. Can crack if bent, but otherwise rigid and shatter proof.

                                    #1215833
                                    LynneDe
                                    Default

                                        Yes, it’s the glue-all I buy by the gallon at our local (hour away) Staples Office Supply. I don’t care for the school glue at all! I’d purchased some smaller bottles of it to have the bottles for gluing petals together after semi-drying. Much too much watered down, in my opinion.

                                        Hope you can find a good place for what you need. Have you tried Aileen’s white glue yet? It is more flexible when dried then Elmer’s. Just a thought. Walmart carries larger bottles of it, though much more expensive than the school type glues.

                                        Blessings, LynneDe

                                        As I will never take this exact path again may I not leave a kind word unspoken or a kind deed undone. May my life count for good, may the world be better for my having been in it when the final reckoning is accomplished. Blessings, LynneDe

                                        #1215841
                                        BugFolk
                                        Default

                                            A friend of mine was doing experiments this last week. I left him with one of my older clay projects, a silicone mold I made, some of my clay and the recipe.

                                            There was something he did by accident. The process involved using vinegar afterwards. The result yielded something exactly as I wanted. The leaf he cast from my mold was very flexible. I could roll it around in my hand long after it had dried and cured. It looks like if the result can be repeated I might have found my solution.

                                            #1215834
                                            LynneDe
                                            Default

                                                Sounds wonderful, are you willing to share what he did or is it going to be a trade secret?

                                                I’m not into making jewelry, but to have the leaves and petals be flexible in my life-sized flowers and greenery would be such a help.

                                                I do understand if you aren’t willing to share, you don’t want competition but if you are, I’d be very thankful.

                                                Blessings! LynneDe

                                                As I will never take this exact path again may I not leave a kind word unspoken or a kind deed undone. May my life count for good, may the world be better for my having been in it when the final reckoning is accomplished. Blessings, LynneDe

                                                #1215842
                                                BugFolk
                                                Default

                                                    I think I found another way that is easier to reproduce. I kind of want to keep it a secret but I can give you enough pointers that I believe you’ll be able to figure it out. I’ll send you a pm.

                                                    #1215843
                                                    BugFolk
                                                    Default

                                                        End result: something flexible but not very strong. It won’t last very long. Plus the stuff I was mixing isn’t quite safe for indoors.

                                                        So I’m still looking. Looks like what I need is an EVA type glue vs PVA, looking at the ingredients of Lumina clay. (hint: look up MSDS and it will point you to the DickBlick site) Such things I am not sure are available for home use.

                                                        Looks like I need to pony up for more modena/ Lumina clay if I want such permanence and flexibility. But I still need it in bulk supply and not sure how to get it at a reasonable rate.

                                                        #1215830
                                                        Art_Rabbit
                                                        Default

                                                            Bumping this because I’m interested in your process and results! :) I am always on the lookout for new polyclay effects. Specifically something that could be as transparent as possible. I want to make some figurines of science fiction aliens that have a transparent outer layer and bioluminescent spots (which I could use glow in the dark clay or paint to add in or on the transparent layer). And good luck with your own projects! :thumbsup:

                                                            #1215835
                                                            LynneDe
                                                            Default

                                                                Cold porcelain has some translucence if you don’t add white to it in the beginning steps, but not transparent. There are some new polymer clays that do have more transparency to them.

                                                                Blue Bottle Tree – Polymer Clay Tutorials and Information has many suggestions for the ways clay can be used.

                                                                I haven’t done much with polymers, my early efforts were less than satisfactory, I doubt I cooked them long enough.

                                                                If you google them, you will find many helpful hints, tips, tutorials.

                                                                Blessings!

                                                                As I will never take this exact path again may I not leave a kind word unspoken or a kind deed undone. May my life count for good, may the world be better for my having been in it when the final reckoning is accomplished. Blessings, LynneDe

                                                              Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
                                                              • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.