Home Forums The Art Business Center General Art Business Legal Corner New EU geo-blocking law from 3 December 2018 applies globally

Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #465605
    zardoz71
    Default

        If you are not doing business in the EU or selling goods into the EU you can ignore it however as an example if you are in the US and selling art to the UK but not to any other EU member state this will effect you.

        So tomorrow, from 3.12.18 the new EU geo-blocking rules come into effect.

        It’s a very long list of changes based on the idea to prevent consumer discrimination.

        […]
        blocking access to websites across borders;
        denying the possibility to complete an order, to purchase goods or to download content when accessing a website from abroad;
        denying delivery or shipment across border;
        providing different prices and conditions depending on nationality, country of residence or location of the customer.

        You can download a very long FAQ pdf file from the official website:
        https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/geo-blocking-digital-single-market

        Another good source in english would be:

        […]
        Freedom of contract remains, subject to compliance with non-discrimination rules

        While the Regulation does not create an obligation on traders to sell, it does prohibit traders from discriminating on the basis of a customer’s nationality, residence or establishment when selling. Traders remain free to set different prices on websites targeting different customer groups. They also remain free in principle to define the geographical area in which they provide delivery services. The Regulation does not introduce an obligation on traders to deliver across the EU. There can also be valid reasons for treating customers differently, so the Regulation focuses on those cases where customers cannot be discriminated against on grounds of where they come from or where they live. Other justifications for not supplying such as, products being out of stock, will remain valid. However, there will be an obligation to treat EU customers in the same manner as local customers when they are in the same situation, regardless of their nationality, place of residence or place of establishment.
        .
        .
        .

        https://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2018/global/new-eu-geoblocking-regulation-what-businesses-selling-into-the-eu-need-to-do-to-comply

        Quite a few pages to read. Another heads up, in the coming few months more rules/law from the EU will follow that have some significant impact worldwide……

        Edit: here is another page that has some good examples:

        What does this mean?

        By way of example, with effect from 3 December absent a legal justification, a trader based in the UK will not be able to prevent a German customer (identified using technical means, such as an IP address, or otherwise) from accessing its UK website, and purchasing the trader’s goods/services on the same terms as a UK customer (including the price). This does not mean that, if the trader has more than one website, the price offered on each of them has to be the same. Differential pricing, special offers and promotions from Member State to Member State will continue to be permissible, provided that those terms are available to all EU customers on a non-discriminatory basis.

        In terms of delivery options, the trader in this example could offer to deliver goods in the UK and Ireland only. Whilst the Regulation requires a trader to sell cross-border in the EU, it does not impose an obligation to deliver cross-border. The German customer would, however, have to be offered the option of collecting the goods from the trader’s premises or arranging delivery to their German address themselves.

        The trader in question would not be able to discriminate based on the Member State in which the customer’s credit card was issued, if it accepted payment by that brand of credit card in another Member State. However, it would not be required to accept a credit card simply because it accepted debit cards of the same brand.

        https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/traders-must-be-geo-blocking-compliant-18508/

        #740535
        contumacious
        Default

            Unbelievable. ( I figured I should not post what I originally typed in revision 2 of this post….)

            #740536
            zardoz71
            Default

                Unbelievable. ( I figured I should not post what I originally typed in revision 2 of this post….)

                Don’t shoot the messenger. :lol:

                The idea behind it is not bad, however the solutuion from the EU is not a good one.

                Things like copyright digital streams got a 2 year exception (lobbying paying off) so no easy way for me to watch something like Sky Arts Landscape Artist of the Year 2018 from the UK here in Germany or Netflix Spain.

                On the other hand the don’t fix all the underlaying issues like that every member states has different € limits on small enterprises or stuff that you need for certain countries a packaging license (no joke). The reason I don’t sell to Austria was not that I don’t like the customers there but that I need to pay in Austria for a license. It’s annoying enough that my own country does the same (will get even worse in January) and that this one works not EU wide……

                Edit: here is the link for the German packaging act in English: https://www.gruener-punkt.de/en/services/packaging/german-packaging-act.html

                Fun stuff :evil:

                #740532
                Harold Roth
                Default

                    This is confusing to me. It looks like it does not affect US sellers who want to sell in Europe. It’s kind of the Wild West here in terms of selling there. Like on Amazon, selling to Europe is separate and there are different rules, including having to collect VAT. On my Shopify site, I don’t have to collect VAT and there are not different rules.

                    Also, isn’t this going to create havoc with the brexit thing? Seems like it basically nullifies brexit in terms of UK merchants.

                    #740537
                    zardoz71
                    Default

                        This is confusing to me. It looks like it does not affect US sellers who want to sell in Europe. It’s kind of the Wild West here in terms of selling there. Like on Amazon, selling to Europe is separate and there are different rules, including having to collect VAT. On my Shopify site, I don’t have to collect VAT and there are not different rules.

                        Also, isn’t this going to create havoc with the brexit thing? Seems like it basically nullifies brexit in terms of UK merchants.

                        The legal reach is practical the same as with the GDPR. If you are doing business outside of the EU you can ignore it, but just in that moment when you work with a customer in the EU you need to follow it even if you are not in the EU.

                        2.1.7. What is the territorial scope of the Regulation?
                        The Regulation applies to all traders offering their goods or services to consumers in the EU,
                        regardless of whether they are established in the EU or in a non-EU country. Therefore,
                        traders established in non-EU countries that operate in the EU are therefore subject to this
                        Regulation.

                        2.1.8. Does the Regulation benefit all customers in Europe? What about non-EU
                        customers in Europe?
                        Within the meaning of the Regulation, the term ‘customer’ means a consumer who is a
                        national of, or a resident in, a Member State, or an undertaking that is established in a
                        Member State, and receives a service or purchases a good, or seeks to do so, within the EU,
                        for the sole purpose of end use.
                        In other words, the Regulation applies to the provision of goods or services to EU nationals
                        or residents in all EU Member States. As a result, non-EU nationals who have their residence
                        in the EU will also benefit from the Regulation within the EU.

                        https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/document.cfm?doc_id=55375

                        About the VAT, in the past seller platforms could ignore it because the would simple point to the 3th party like yourself and that it would be your job to follow all the rules and laws when you sell items via the platform.

                        Now things are changing and platforms like Amazon can get fined for every single time if somebody is selling through them and not paying the VAT, now the are paying more attention to the problems. :evil:

                        Here is a news article about the draft that goes into full effect next year

                        […]
                        The draft bill, which is set to be presented this week, will also make the likes of eBay and Amazon liable for any VAT left unpaid by third party traders.

                        If passed, the law would lead to fairer taxation, secure tax revenues and prevent distortion of the market, sources within the finance ministry told the Süddeutsche.

                        Conservative estimates say the German treasury loses at least €100 million per year in potential tax revenue due to traders in other countries failing to pay VAT. Others put the figure even higher, at around one billion Euros.
                        .
                        .

                        https://www.thelocal.de/20180731/germany-takes-on-amazon-over-unpaid-vat

                        This is not limited to Germany….

                        Brexit so far as it goes with the last released text mean the UK need to still follow EU law for quite some time….

                        #740533
                        Harold Roth
                        Default
                            #740529
                            Robin
                            Default

                                Not going to sell in Europe. I had a mug purchased via Printful and cancelled the sale and fixed my site to exclude Europe. I don’t have time or interest in this.

                                Robin

                                #740530
                                IanBertram
                                Default

                                    https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458997

                                    Ian
                                    Website - https://ianbertramartist.uk
                                    Instagram: - https://www.instagram.com/ianbertramuk/
                                    Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/ianbertramartist/

                                    #740538
                                    zardoz71
                                    Default

                                        Not going to sell in Europe. I had a mug purchased via Printful and cancelled the sale and fixed my site to exclude Europe. I don’t have time or interest in this.

                                        OK thats something I don’t understand, is printful not one of the Print on Demand services?

                                        In that case it would not be your burden but the problem of the services provider to follow all the laws. So e.g. if the don’t have a packaging license for Germany after 1. January 2019 the could be fined but not you.

                                        Update I think the problem is that if you would use a overlay and sell direct from your own website you would run into the problems, so this makes sense. I was expecting the shop would function the way redbubble does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                                        #740539
                                        zardoz71
                                        Default

                                            Update about tax evasion

                                            […]
                                            The U.K.’s tax authority has “red-flagged” 4,600 online merchants, from a total of 7,000 investigations, in the last two years that have been evading sales taxes on goods sold in the U.K. on major marketplace sites like Amazon and eBay. Many of those online stores have been shut down and deleted as a result, while those now selling to U.K. buyers legitimately are giving the U.K.’s tax coffers a £205 million ($255 million) boost……

                                            https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/10/uk-has-red-flagged-4600-sellers-for-tax-evasion-on-marketplaces-like-amazon-in-2-years/

                                            […]
                                            The global nature of VAT tax evasion has led to several jurisdictions, including Germany, India and Australia to launch their own joint liability notices.

                                            The European Council adopted new rules for e-commerce marketplaces in December 2017 that make platforms like Amazon and eBay liable to directly collect their sellers’ VAT and pay it in the consumer’s member state. Member states should transpose the new directive in full by Jan. 1, 2021, according to European Council documents.
                                            .
                                            .
                                            Germany recently became the second state in the EU after the U.K. to jump the gun by passing new legislation that makes internet marketplaces like Amazon and eBay liable for VAT…..

                                            https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-tax-report-international/uk-red-flags-tax-evading-sellers-to-amazon-ebay-alibaba-2

                                            In case for UK you can find more information here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-7001-should-i-be-registered-for-vat

                                            Just remember this is even importment if you try to get into exhibition e.g for the Royal Society of Marine Artists

                                            #740534
                                            joesurfer
                                            Default

                                                If they outlaw the way you paint/sell then you simply become an outlaw painter. The only ones telling you it is wrong is the same crooked globalist government who dis-armed you and now wants to steal your wealth and power with regulations….”And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name”…–Revelation 13:17

                                                DO NOT accept the mark.

                                                I have just been thrown out of the inn where I was staying, naked as a worm. Claude Monet

                                                #740531
                                                IanBertram
                                                Default

                                                    There is nothing in this legislation about how or what you paint.

                                                    Poorly implemented it may be, but it is aimed at the big companies who try to control the marketplace in which you can buy. At the moment it is common for US goods to be sold in the UK at much higher prices. This legislation stops those companies from preventing me buying directly. Granted there will be cases where additional shipping and tax make that not worthwhile, but not always. They can still charge more if I buy in the UK, but they can’t refuse to sell to me if I choose to buy in a different marketplace where that is to my advantage. I don’t think there is anything in Revelations about that…

                                                    Ian
                                                    Website - https://ianbertramartist.uk
                                                    Instagram: - https://www.instagram.com/ianbertramuk/
                                                    Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/ianbertramartist/

                                                  Viewing 12 posts - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
                                                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.