Home Forums The Think Tank Creativity Working from life vs from photos.

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  • #994936
    3igAnt
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        Hello,

        I am an evolving artist. There is still a long path for me to go and lots of things to learn about painting.

        I know that, for example painting a portrait from life and from a reference photo are different things but, in 2017 where taking a photo is so easy, is it a must to create paintings only by working from life, having the model sit still for hours in multiple seasons in the same pose and one must for sure avoid working from a reference photo? I do not really understand the differenece between working from life vs ref photo. I sometimes see artists are so proud that they did a painting from life, and I do not know why where photos are available.

        I would want to paint a portrait of someone who was passed away and the thing I can refer to is photos in this case. So will that painting be less worthy than a painting that was painted from life? Or maybe I cannot go to paris but want to paint a view from Paris. Same case, I can only refer to photos. Or maybe my friends hessitste to sit for hours and in that case I will also take photos fot painting. What are your thoughts?

        And do you think that, an expereinced artist would distinguish between a painting that was painted from life and one that was painted by refering a photo?If so how? Because an artist I met told me that he can understand but he did not tell how exactly he can. Do you think that it is possible?

        What are your thoughts about working from imagination? Is it an upper level? For nature, still life and portrait paintings? Do you think that an experienced artist can paint all those concepts from imagination with no ubsurd shapes?

        All the best )

        #1267297
        OK
        Default

            It’s always good to work from life when you can so you learn to extract the essence of the model, working from a photo you tend to paint the intricate detail.
            While working from life produce a more primitive and simplified work, too much detail can cause preciousness and you become to literal, while the simplification of working directly brings power and elegance, this is probably what your artist friend is picking up on.
            Art is all about learning to see, the more you work from life the richer the world around you will seem as you learn to observe and develop a fresh look at ordinary things.

            :wave: Dave.

            “What peaches and what penumbras! Whole families shopping at night! Aisles full of husbands! Wives in the avocados, babies in the tomatoes!—and you, Garcia Lorca, what were you doing down by the watermelons?”
            — Allen Ginsberg
            Are you ready for a Journey?
            PS Critiques always welcome but no plaudits or emoting, please don’t press the like button.

            #1267308
            DLander
            Default

                I’m guessing the vast majority of artists who have and who are making a living depicting political figures such as Obama and Trump are TOTALLY dependent upon photo images– most likely photos they, themselves, did not take.

                (See, generally, Shepard Fairey.)

                D. L. Lander

                #1267299
                budigart
                Default

                    I paint from photos because I have to. For the last dozen years, I’ve painted free for parents portraits of their children killed in the war. They can’t sit for me. One thing you learn from working from photos is that photos clump values, and blow out the lights. You either have to manipulate the photo in photoshop (this helps), or just know that, generally speaking, you’re going to have to lighten the darks, and darken the lights. Sometimes, a little, sometimes, a lot . . . and every once in a while, not at all.

                    #1267291
                    WFMartin
                    Default

                        Nearly any artist who creates portraits of people in motion, celebrities, wiggly kids, wiggly pets, deceased humans or pets, candid scenes, or landscapes with unique lighting, are working from photos, whether they care to admit that they do, to the general public, or other artists, or not.

                        There is nothing wrong with using reference photos, but to do a good job of it, you must become familiar with the typical camera (lens) distortions, and exaggerations that are always prevalent to some extent in any photo.

                        Once you are aware of the distortions of color, value, perspective, saturation, etc, that cameras create, you have a definite “handle” on the actions you must take to eliminate them in your art.

                        It is not difficult, but it does require some knowledge. Viewers of art who claim that they can tell when it was done from a photograph can do so because all the typical aberrations caused by the use of a camera have been included in the painting. It merely requires a bit of added knowledge of photographic aberrations in order to eliminate those effects from your drawing, or painting.

                        wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                        https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                        #1267303
                        members
                        Default

                            Photos can be great references if you already know what’s in the unclear parts. To know that, you can observe, sketch, and photograph the real thing when possible. Doesn’t have to be the exact subject, but a similar one, like people in general, dogs in general, etc.

                            In order of preference, this is how I like to work if I am depicting a particular subject:

                            1. From life when possible. You learn the most and get the most accuracy from this, and you remember more than you’d think, from having ‘been there’ and sketched it live. Even if you don’t think your life drawings are very good, it gets better with practice, and the end result has more life, accuracy, and character, IMO.

                            2. From photos I take, again because being there yourself means you learn and remember more of what you observe. Your reference photos might have a dark area where you can’t see the detail, but if you took the photo, you remember what was there.

                            3. From photos supplied by permission. Most pet portraits would be this.

                            4. Photos from multiple sources, as many angles as possible, different lighting situations, etc, where you only reference a detail of any one photo. E.g., looking to see how the stripes and spots are placed on a particular species of wild animal; proportions of a horse; details of a saddle; color pattern on a bluebird. There is a difference between infringing (copying) and reference, and the thing that generally spots it as infringement is when it’s recognizable as being copied from a particular photo.

                            Beware of numerous sites offering “FREE” images; many are infringing on thousands of artists/photographers, and some are ‘scraper sites’ which can also infect your computer with malware. Find the real owner and get permission by searching the name associated with the image. I have gotten permission a number of times just by asking.

                            #1267306
                            scc1989
                            Default

                                Working from life is preferable to working from a photo but most of the time, it is not possible to draw from life. I’ve dabbled in photography so I’m pretty familiar with the ins and outs of my camera. With the exception of extreme wide angle lenses, most modern lenses are pretty remarkably sharp and have little distortion. What people think is lens distortion is actually perspective distortion. If you are capturing a scene with high dynamic range then you will likely have to do a bit of post processing but most dslr’s handle that just fine. In conclusion, work from life if you can and you prefer it. Otherwise, a photo is just fine imo. Even if the photo is bad,you can use your creativity and artistic license to fill in the missing details.

                                #1267296
                                La_
                                Default

                                    3ig, i agree with everyone above, but it’s noteworthy to add – Many artists don’t go for the accuracy of ‘photo realism’.

                                    a big part of the reason for artwork, is to express beyond realism.

                                    and yes, plenty do it successfully

                                    la

                                    _____________________________________________
                                    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know Peace

                                    #1267290
                                    musket
                                    Default

                                        Although it is often overlooked, there is also such a thing as working from memory.

                                        #1267289

                                        Reality is [vastly] overrated.

                                        Stop working from photos; stop working from life.

                                        Work from imagination…

                                        Forcing the waveform to collapse for two decades...
                                        http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
                                        Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2019

                                        #1267304
                                        members
                                        Default

                                            Imagination still benefits from some kind of personal knowledge, to be able to capture the essence of things, even if not realistically depicted. Obviously pure abstract art may not rely on ‘life drawing’ etc, at all, but if the character or feel of a real thing is meant to be conveyed, it helps to have observed it, even in unrealistic art. I work mostly from imagination.

                                            #1267305
                                            sbalderrama
                                            Default

                                                There is nothing “wrong” with working from photos, although your portraits will benefit from having multiple point of view references of the person in addition to the main one you are using for reference. It’s helpful for example to be able to see how far back the eyes are set or the depth of the nose from a side view even if you are drawing more frontal.

                                                The main thing with using photo’s is that the work of flattening the image from 3D space to 2D space has already been done. On the one hand this makes it easier, on the other the art takes on the aspects of the photo, including effects of the lens and focus settings, etc.

                                                Working from life will end up with different results than working from a photo.

                                                Also, many cities these days will have drop in life drawing sessions you can attend for a small fee to the model. It’s worth searching to see what is available.

                                                #1267307
                                                t1barkode
                                                Default

                                                    I try to work from life as much as possible. I just started painting about 6 or 7 months ago and I looked at it the same way you seem to be. I couldn’t see what the big deal was about working from life. Well, I decided to try it, because all my favorite artists work pretty much strictly from life, so I figured there has got to be something to it. It is kind of hard to put it into words, you just have to start working from life consistently for awhile and then you will see for yourself what the difference is. It can be very uncomfortable at first. You will get used to it. I am still getting used to it. Photos I will say are actually easier for me to work from, but I enjoy working from life more. I think it is a very good thing to be able to do, even if you plan on working from photos anyways. Also, I see nothing wrong with working from photos if thats what you want to do. If that is your thing then go for it. All I can say is give working from life a try first.

                                                    #1267294

                                                    Hello,

                                                    ….
                                                    And do you think that, an expereinced artist would distinguish between a painting that was painted from life and one that was painted by refering a photo?If so how? Because an artist I met told me that he can understand but he did not tell how exactly he can. Do you think that it is possible? [/quote]

                                                    Generally, yes. Most people who paint from photos are far too dependent on the photo image, in which case it is easily detectable.

                                                    Think about what happens when you create a portrait from life. The sitter shifts and breathes, their attention wanders so their expression varies, the light changes; you as the painter shift your head and hence your point of view; you have to deal with your own binocular vision and the incredible complexity of visual perception. For example, the image in your mind is actually made from a complex and evolving mosaic – the actual focal region of your eye only covers a visual area about the size of a full moon, and it’s those little bits from which the full image is primarily created. On top of that you have to deal with what you think you see, rather than what is there, as well as your own personal habits.

                                                    How you integrate all this into a single, static image is very individual, like a fingerprint. It’s also what gives a sense of life to a work of art.

                                                    OTOH, someone highly dependent on a photo has little or none of this to deal with; the actual subject (the photograph) does not vary. And because it doesn’t vary, there’s no place for the artist to engage his or her integrative skills. Some people try to tart the image up with stronger colour or selective blurring or “painterly” brushstrokes, but still they all kind of look the same, deindivualized and static.

                                                    [QUOTE=3igAnt]What are your thoughts about working from imagination? Is it an upper level? For nature, still life and portrait paintings? Do you think that an experienced artist can paint all those concepts from imagination with no ubsurd shapes?

                                                    All the best )

                                                    Personally, I love work from the imagination and tend to regard it as the highest level of representational, particularly figurative, art. Not to say that it doesn’t also produce some of the worst :)
                                                    BTW, what’s an absurd shape? Whether a shape works in a painting is all that really matters.

                                                    Cheers;
                                                    Chris

                                                    C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
                                                    I suppose I have to do this too :p (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
                                                    Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde

                                                    The primary palette: Attention, observation, memory, imagination, integration, execution

                                                    #1267300

                                                    Hello,

                                                    I am an evolving artist. There is still a long path for me to go and lots of things to learn about painting.

                                                    I know that, for example painting a portrait from life and from a reference photo are different things but, in 2017 where taking a photo is so easy, is it a must to create paintings only by working from life, having the model sit still for hours in multiple seasons in the same pose and one must for sure avoid working from a reference photo? I do not really understand the differenece between working from life vs ref photo. I sometimes see artists are so proud that they did a painting from life, and I do not know why where photos are available.

                                                    I would want to paint a portrait of someone who was passed away and the thing I can refer to is photos in this case. So will that painting be less worthy than a painting that was painted from life? Or maybe I cannot go to paris but want to paint a view from Paris. Same case, I can only refer to photos. Or maybe my friends hessitste to sit for hours and in that case I will also take photos fot painting. What are your thoughts?

                                                    And do you think that, an expereinced artist would distinguish between a painting that was painted from life and one that was painted by refering a photo?If so how? Because an artist I met told me that he can understand but he did not tell how exactly he can. Do you think that it is possible?

                                                    What are your thoughts about working from imagination? Is it an upper level? For nature, still life and portrait paintings? Do you think that an experienced artist can paint all those concepts from imagination with no ubsurd shapes?

                                                    All the best )

                                                    One thing you learn when working from life is to not let the model sit for hours! You learn to detect what is really fundamental and important! You learn a LOT about image representation that way simply because you HAVE TO!

                                                    Start small.. for example.. hold your hand in the air in front of your and draw it ( obviously with the other hand). You will notice that you have far more info than when using a photo and at same time you need to focus on the important stuff because you will not be able to hold your hand up for a full hour!

                                                    Photos are very very useful when you want to capture a moment that is impossible to pose for. Middle of a jump for example, or a over sugar fed kid that will not stand in a single place for 20 seconds.

                                                    About working from imagination, you want to know if it is possible? Just google for Frank Frazetta. The vast majority of his work was purely from imagination.

                                                    "no no! You are doing it all wrong, in the internet we are supposed to be stubborn, inflexible and arrogant. One cannot simply be suddenly reasonable and reflexive in the internet, that breaks years of internet tradition as a medium of anger, arrogance, bigotry and self entitlement. Damm these internet newcomers being nice to to others!!!"

                                                    "If brute force does not solve your problem, then you are not using enough!"

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