Home Forums Explore Media Watercolor Palette Talk Alright- Give me animal-safe brush suggestions. I’m curious

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  • #451586
    SteveBerry
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        So, I’m not a particular animal-rights activist or any such thing. I’m not here to convince anyone to not by animal-hair products. But I’m curious and uninformed on the subject, and so have come to be educated and given options.

        But… first things first- I’m not willing to use an…. I’ll call it “animal-friendly” brush if it doesn’t do what I want. There’s probably a term I don’t know. But painting is hard enough, without handicapping myself by using a brush that doesn’t do what I need it to do. I’m not going to change the way I paint to accommodate the brush. Still, why kill an animal if I don’t need to, right? And why suggest animal-hair products to my students if I don’t need to? So, I’ll describe the brushes that I use and what my experience has been like with certain synthetic alternatives, and see what alternate suggestions folks have. :)

        I use a variety of squirrel mops for my washes. This is the primary fur-based brush set I use. Lovely floppy squirrel mops that hold lots of paint, have a lovely point, are great for broad dry brush work, get scruffy easily when I abuse them and smash them around, and yet make giant wet washes a piece of cake too. I’ve tried the Neptune brushes and did not feel they were satisfactory. So that is not an alternate I would find acceptable. But perhaps there are some sort of hakes, for example, that are harvested from a living animal? Like tail or mane hair? Or certain alternate synthetic mops that have improved in the last 4-5 years?

        It’s also occurred to me that there might be chinese brushes that use hair that is harvested from an animal, rather than the animal being killed? There are all kinds of animal hair products that come out of China that we don’t use here at all. Or perhaps that’s just wishful thinking? I don’t mind floppy brushes that have personality at all, so I’m curious.

        The other natural-hair brush I use is a needle, or a reservoir liner. This is like a rigger, but the long springy tip is teamed up with a bigger natural-hair belly. This is indispensable for long delicate floppy line work. Grasses, trees, telephone wires, etc. Again, I’ve never seen anything synthetic that does this….??

        Beyond those two types of brushes, I have two different sizes of synthetics that are springy and relatively dry and hold a nice point. So no issues there. Its the squirrel mops and the reservoir liner/needle that I’ve not found appropriate alternates for….

        Thanks for your input! :)

        #568290
        indraneel
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            Goat hair is an acceptable alternative for squirrels….. but the animals are definitely killed. Synthetic squirrel replacements have not yet made their way to this part of the world. (Actually, squirrel mops are hard to come by as well.)

            #568301
            adefrisk
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                Can’t you just shave a goat or a squirrel and wait for the hair to grow back?

                Aaron.

                #568293
                Superturtle
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                    I recently tries the Davinci synthetic squirrel brushes and they were really, really nice. I like the Neptunes a lot but the Davinci feels better. I’ve heard good things about the Raphael synthetic squirrel as well. One of those might be worth a try. I do like the Neptunes a lot, better than natural squirrel, but that’s a personal preference. I have one Escoda Ultimo that I don’t really care for; it could be the stubborn sizing Escoda uses but the brush felt almost crispy to me.

                    Dynasty makes a faux squirrel reservoir liner. I have no idea how good it is, but it’s the closest thing to a synthetic substitute I’ve seen for what you’re describing.

                    If I had to guess I’d guess that for the Chinese brushes you mentioned the animals don’t make it. Especially if the hair is from a livestock animal.

                    You did not mention it, but since you brought up alternatives I do think the Escoda Versatil is a nice sable alternative, at least in the larger sizes. The more I use that brush the more I like it. It behaves almost like a sable blend, so I wouldn’t call it a perfect sable substitute, but it’s a great brush.

                    #568303
                    shadye1
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                        I watched the program “country file” last night and it featured fur from China and Denmark, it is a multi-billion industry, so fur not used is a complete waste of the animals life.
                        I have synthetics but most are Escoda Versatil or Prado, they are very good but don’t carry a lot of paint/water

                        #568288

                        Hi Steve… while I do take issue with killing animals purely for their fur, I do understand your desire to leave the emotion out of this thread.

                        I have a set of Dynasty faux squirrel brushes and love them. For me, they are soft enough to lay glazes with enough snap to render details. Using natural hair in my style which is more controlled than large and loose washes by landscape artists, are just too soft. The faux squirrel seem to be a a nice compromise.

                        I did try a couple of Neptunes, #8 and #6 rounds, that I found to be too soft for my needs. I gave these brushes to one of my Students and she absolutely loved them.

                        Char --

                        CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

                        #568312
                        Watercollar
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                            I use the Escoda Ultimo Mop in conjunction with Jackson’s White toray (rebranded Escoda Perlas. The no14 has a perfect point, sharper than no7 Pro Arte Prolene plus and DaVinci Cosmotop Mix – natural no8. In the case of the DaVinci there’s no “point” to talk about, really…
                            I’m totally happy with the Escodas to the point where I’m not interested in trying other natural hair or synthetics. I believe the extra capacity of the natural hair brushes doesn’t represent a real practical advantage – more to do with psychological comfort perhaps. ..

                            Sebastian.

                            (C&C Welcomed.)

                            #568308

                            I use:
                            – Escoda Versatil
                            – Escoda Ultimo
                            – Princeton Neptune
                            – Léonard 872RO Similhair Samy (these are Made in France), and really great
                            – Marabout soft for lift overs
                            – Rafael Precision and Softaqua for Urban sketching – tese are ok that, but less for real watercolour

                            All of these are synthetic (because I don’t use animal hair), and are great, hold a lot of water, offer a good point, and are superbe for washes. to I use:
                            – Escoda Versatil
                            – Escoda Ultimo
                            – Princeton Neptune
                            – Léonard 872RO Similhair Samy (these are Made in France), and really great to use, hold a lot of water, offer a good point, and are good for washes.
                            – Marabout soft for lift overs
                            – Rafael Precision and Softaqua for Urban sketching – these are ok for it, but less for real watercolour

                            All of these are synthetic (because I don’t use animal hair),

                            I hope I could be of some help to you.use.

                            I hope I could be of some help to you.

                            Maria - Made in Portugal
                            "Really I don't like human nature unless all candied over with art" - Virginia Woolf

                            https://womenwagepeace.org.il/en/

                            #568302
                            Triduana
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                                With the exception of two squirrel mops I bought when I first took up painting 3 years ago, all my brushes are synthetic (and I’ll replace these 2 with synthetic brushes too). I love the Escoda Versatils, they hold plenty of paint and have a lovely fine point for detail. I can’t compare them to sable though as I don’t use them. My 1″ flat is a Pro-Arte Prolene; while it doesn’t hold loads of paint it has a great snap and makes lovely crisp edges. My rigger is a Daler Rowney, it’s a very good brush and easy to control once you get the hang of it, it makes lovely fine lines and holds plenty of paint. My other brushes are mainly Cotmans, they are what I learnt to paint with and for the price they are very good.

                                Kay D - Edinburgh, Scotland

                                So long, and thanks ...

                                #568294
                                SteveBerry
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                                    I appreciate all the recommendations and personal experiences people are offering. That’s never a bad thing. However, I was hoping to get some personal comparison points and suggestions for faux squirrel mops and/or a synthetic reservoir liners. Of course, I’m sure there are people who will read this thread who have different needs than my own. :)

                                    In an effort to nudge the conversation in a direction that would be more useful to me, I would just (politely) note that saying a synthetic is very nice or paints well isn’t particularly useful. It gives me a name to try out, which isn’t bad, but I need some sort of comparison point to natural hair, as I’m trying to hunt out alternatives. I understand this is a catch-22 for people who don’t use animal-hair products. But how else am I to understand what I gain or what I lose, in terms of functional application of water and paint, if I buy a brush recommended here?

                                    As an example, just this morning I found out that I actually used the DaVinci Casaneo Synethic Squirrel Mop the other day. It was the rebranded Frank Eber brush.


                                    A friend had it and I had forgotten my mop when painting plein air, so I borrowed it to lay in a big wash. Given how it was made (with a quill and wire), the way it carried and dispersed water (it carried a lot and dispersed it evenly), and the way the bristles splayed when I wanted them to and yet came to a nice sharp point, I assumed it was squirrel hair of some sort. I was very impressed to find out after the fact that it was a synthetic. Perhaps it was a tad bit stiffer than some mops I’ve used- but then again, even natural hair squirrel mops vary in terms of stiffness and sharpness of the point. The “hairs” definitely have a longer body that taper to a longer narrow point than some mops. But I actually liked that feature. Whatever the case, they’re lovely brushes. They’re also almost as expensive as Squirrel Hair. A 1/2″ wide brush is around 50$. Not cheap. If I needed a new brush (which I don’t) I might’ve picked one up, but given the price, and that I don’t actually __need__ one, I doubt I’ll be grabbing this one.

                                    Other suggestions such as this would be useful though. And although I looked up the Dynasty stuff, I couldn’t find any real reviews for the Reservoir Liner. Having a synthetic reservoir liner/ dagger/etc would be another thing to find. I have many students who are looking for one. A cheaper synthetic mop that was good, that I could recommend to students, would also be useful. But it needs to hold a lot of water, do washes with ease, cut edges with a point, and be soft enough that I can smash it and splay the bristles for “expressive” strokes and drybrush work- all things I do with a mop.

                                    Thanks so far everyone!

                                    #568311
                                    LatteForZoey
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                                        I have used both high-quality synthetic and natural hair brushes in the past and present. First, I would like to establish that as of all the brands I’ve tried, none of the 100% synthetic brushes work exactly like a natural hair brush in that they typically hold less paint and water, but I personally don’t find it to be a detriment.

                                        I have both an Escoda Reserva pointed round 8 and an Escoda Versatil round 10. The Reserva has a wider belly and holds much more paint and water than the Versatil. The versatil does not really have a brush belly; it sort of just goes straight to a point from the ferrule, which I think is characteristic of most smaller synthetic brushes. The versatil is probably the best synthetic I’ve tried in terms of paint and water retention, however; it holds quite a bit of water and releases it slowly.

                                        I have both an Escoda Ultimo size 18 round and an Isabey petit gris quill, size 4. The Escoda Ultimo line is supposed to be a synthetic squirrel, and this one interestingly does have a bit of a belly, although the ferrule is a traditional crimped metal ferrule. The 18 is obviously bigger than the Isabey 4, but I would say they hold about the same water during actual painting (I try to test them during painting sessions rather than doing some systematic approach. I am employed in a STEM field, but I just personally like to judge art supplies in practice rather than see how long of a line it can paint XD). The Isabey is floppier and is able to release a more concentrated wash of paint when it first touches paper, which I find is characteristic of a lot of natural hair brushes.

                                        I have also tried Silver Brush Black Velvet brushes, which are a blend of natural hair and synthetic. Again, an obvious belly because of the natural hair, and the pointed rounds in this line hold about as much water/paint as the Escoda Reserva (I had a size 8 in both lines at one point). Extremely sharp point, and it’s floppy because of the natural squirrel, but also has a bit of a snap because of the synthetic. However, one major difference I found between the Escoda Reserva and the Silver Brush Black Velvet is that the black velvet is better for softening hard edges than the Reserva; the reserva kind of scrubs off more paint than I’d like when I’m trying to use it to blend out edges. For this reason, I find the black velvet line to be better for glazing.

                                        I’ve also tried out Princeton Neptune and Grumbacher Goldenedge. The Princeton Neptune line are beautifully constructed brushes (just as beautiful as the Escoda lines; the two of them are my favorite in terms of construction) and holds more water than the goldenedge, but does not hold as much water/paint as a natural hair brush. I can compare a cheap goat hake to a 1″ Princeton Neptune aquarelle flat–the hake definitely will give you juicier and more potent washes.

                                        I have also tried some cheap Pro-Art natural hair calligraphy brushes. Note that these were CHEAP and I don’t have any experience with nice calligraphy brushes, but I found that they were floppy, but held about as much water/paint as my synthetics. I didn’t like them.

                                        That being said, I prefer synthetics for a couple of reasons. While I don’t want to encourage irresponsible harvesting of animal fur either, I find that synthetics are just more economical for my painting style. I don’t consider myself to be a harsh painter; I typically don’t scrub too much, and I may lift only one or two times in a single painting. However, I hate changing brushes while painting. I will stick to using max three or four brushes in a single painting, and don’t change brushes for different purposes such as scrubbing or pulling paint from paint wells. The point on my Escoda Reserva was gone within 8 months of painting weekly; the points on my Silver brush black velvets are still okay after 1.5 years of on and off use. All of my recent brush purchases have been synthetic because I find them more durable, and even if the points disappear, I won’t be dropping $50 on a replacement every time.

                                        I also find that the quality of my paintings aren’t any different whether I use natural hair brushes or synthetics. It’s kind of like painting on different kinds of paper–different kinds of hair in brushes will just require slightly different techniques. At the end of the day, even if I were stuck with those cheap calligraphy brushes, I’ll probably still be able to make the same paintings as long as I have excellent paper and good paints. I’ll just grumble a lot about how awful the brushes are. :lol:

                                        I’m looking forward to trying some Raphael Soft Aqua quills in the future, whenever my Escoda Ultimo 18 and Isabey 4 retire. I’ve heard excellent things about them.

                                        Tim Wilmot’s channel on Youtube features works with synthetics such as the Raphael Soft Aqua line. I hear Joseph Zbuvic absolutely loves the Escoda Perla line as well. Alvaro Castagnet, on the other hand, swears by his line of natural squirrel mops, but also uses smaller synthetics for details because of their point and shape retention. All down to what your individual painting style is! :)

                                        [FONT="Book Antiqua"]-Zoey
                                        #568291
                                        virgil carter
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                                            Lots of very, very good comments here. Hope they are helpful.

                                            In my experience, few brushes compare, for better or worse, with squirrel quills. Either you like them or you don’t. Like good wine, they are an acquired taste. If you like them, then other fibers and shapes don’t really compare.

                                            If you don’t like them, there are all sorts of fiber and shape alternatives.

                                            How does one know which brushes best fit one’s own personal approach to making paintings?

                                            Well…wait for it…personally compare brushes! Yep. All the reviews and recommendations in the world don’t necessarily reflect one’s own personal approach to making paintings. So…explore and compare on a personal basis.

                                            I have a lot of brushes…lots of fibers and lots of shapes…and lots of sizes. I find I keep going back to a select few, unless and until I force myself out of my routine and deliberately try different brushes. Here’s just one brush holder which I frequently use:

                                            Ironically, changing brushes doesn’t seem to alter my paintings very much. I still paint the way I paint. And my paintings still tend to look like they tend to look…

                                            Could it be that it’s the artist who matters, and not the tools…? :-)

                                            Sling paint,
                                            Virgil

                                            Sling paint,
                                            Virgil Carter
                                            http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                            #568295
                                            SteveBerry
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                                                NAHhh! We both know it’s the tools that matter most! ;). Although truthfully, all kidding aside, much like how professionals in all jobs get better tools because the investment is worth it since they’ll use it so much, the right paint brush can make a job much easier. And lacking it can make it harder.

                                                But, honestly, I’m most interested in the subject because I’d like to be able to make alternate recommendations to students. And for ethical reasons. I’m happy with the tools I currently have, though, in terms of mark making.

                                                #568292
                                                virgil carter
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                                                    Gotcha! For students, particularly early painters, I’d suggest that when it comes to brushes, the best brushes may be the ones easiest to control and to predict what they will do.

                                                    I would never recommend quills–natural or artificial–to early painters!

                                                    Squirrel quills just don’t fit early painters IMO!

                                                    Don’t get me wrong–I love squirrel quills and artificial quills. But they are an acquired taste. They take experience to use successfully and to have a sense of positive feedback.

                                                    The size and shape of brushes always depends on the size one paints, and the types of subjects one paints. Botanical paintings, for example, are a far cry from expressive landscapes, not to mention non-representational paintings, of any size. There is no “universal” brush which guarantees success. If you know of one, please, please let me know…

                                                    For early and intermediate painters I always recommend good artificial fiber
                                                    rounds, No. 10 and 16, and an artificial fiber 1-inch flat. Escoda Perla and Versatil are hard to beat for early painters, and mature painters, IMO. These brushes are economical, durable and dependable. That’s hard to beat for an early painter…or any other level of painter!

                                                    For those of us who have painted for a while, we all have other favorite brushes which we have come to like. But for early painters, simple and manageable are best!

                                                    Sling paint,
                                                    Virgil

                                                    Sling paint,
                                                    Virgil Carter
                                                    http://www.virgilcarterfineart.com/

                                                    #568289

                                                    Like Virgil, I start my Students out with good synthetic brushes. Adjusting to the stages of wetness is a really steep learning curve, so there’s lots of time to ease them into wet-in-wet applications.

                                                    Their kit includes a #12, #10, #8, #6 and #2 rounds along with a 1″ flat wash brush. The store brand offered by Curry’s here in Canada is an excellent quality brush that holds lots of water, keeps their points and still have some amount of “snap” for controlled elements.

                                                    Char --

                                                    CharMing Art -- "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art." Leonardo DaVinci

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