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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-19-2009, 04:04 AM
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Yorky Yorky is online now
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

From the User Agreement 13 b
Quote:
b. With respect to Content you submit to the Reference Image Library, you grant to all other users of the web site a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use your uploaded images as reference images in the creation of new artwork in a different medium (such as painting, sculpture, and so on), and to sell the artwork they create pursuant to this license to use the image. You do not grant other users the right to digitally alter the image or to otherwise use or sell the image in its unaltered state. You retain the copyright to the original image.

Doug
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:49 AM
Artgeek16 Artgeek16 is offline
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

while we're on a thread for artists' right, can anyone give me a link or information on how to protect your artwork/rights when you start posting things online, for example with a personal website or on a thread?
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:03 AM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

There are many threads on copyright on wetcanvas if you do a search. basically your original work is copyright even if you omit the copyright symbol, but it is safer to state your work is copyright.

Doug
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:26 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

I think the only way to feel completely free to use someone else's photo or work to produce an artwork for sale or in business is to obtain written permission from the owner of the photo. That is why I take my own photos to paint from. I was thinking of uploading some of my library of photos to WC, but will now wait to see how this issue is resolved.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:41 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

RIL photos are free to use for reference, but the actual photos may not be reproduced.

Doug
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:16 AM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

Hello Yorky. It's me again. Last week there was a message at the top saying that WC would be glad to hear about me more often. So now you wont' stop me from asking questions....(just kidding). It took me time to make my way on WC and I didn't dare to post because I thought I would not be able to write in english (30 years without practising it). But then I decided that practising WC was the best for learning WC and I hope to " WIP" in english....at the same time as I WIP in watercolor. So after this introduction I become serious. I have seen some marvellous photos and I don't really understand the Agreement. Is it the photo itself that you cannot reproduce or the painting of the photo? Normally It's just inspiration for me but I prefer to ask in case the painting looks more or less like the photo at the end. Are the photos on the Library free? do I have to ask the author for authorization beforehand? Or just be polite enough to show the author what I did with the photo. Do I have to contact on WC or by MP.? Sorry for all these questions. I hope WC won't regret reminding me for more participation! THANK YOU
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:25 AM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

The RIL photos are just that - for reference. You may use the photographs as subjects for paintings freely and sell those paintings, but you must not reproduce the photographs for any other purpose. The originator of the photograph retains copyright of the image. Here's an extract from the User Agreement:
Quote:
b. With respect to Content you submit to the Reference Image Library, you grant to all other users of the web site a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use your uploaded images as reference images in the creation of new artwork in a different medium (such as painting, sculpture, and so on), and to sell the artwork they create pursuant to this license to use the image. You do not grant other users the right to digitally alter the image or to otherwise use or sell the image in its unaltered state. You retain the copyright to the original image.

It is courtesy to acknowledge the origin of the reference.

Doug
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:41 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

Yorky, apologies for raising this thread from the dead but the subject matter has recently cropped up when another member asked about submitting reference image photographs that I have taken.

It seems to me that the RIL conditions are contradictory because the final "You retain the copyright to the original image" statement is at odds with much that came before it. My understanding is that If you own the copyright to a photograph then no derivatives (including paintings can be created from it without your consent/agreement.

A recent case illustrates this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12720159
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Old 03-14-2011, 12:44 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

I'll wait for the RIL moderators to explain better.

Doug
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:23 PM
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Lady Carol Lady Carol is offline
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbray
My understanding is that If you own the copyright to a photograph then no derivatives (including paintings can be created from it without your consent/agreement.
basically when you upload your photo into the RIL, you are agreeing that everyone can use it. You do still own the copyright but you have made a pan agreement, so that every member does not have to ask you.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:17 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Carol
basically when you upload your photo into the RIL, you are agreeing that everyone can use it. You do still own the copyright but you have made a pan agreement, so that every member does not have to ask you.

Still seems to be a logical inconsistency there to me. I don't see how anyone can assign the right for everyone to copy their work and yet still be said to own the copyright in any worthwhile/meaniningful sense.

Nevertheless, thanks for giving it some thought. I feel the original post question "Are RIL copyright free for everything?" has been answered. So I'll let the matter drop at this point.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:24 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

We are not granting the right to reproduce the original image, nor to alter it.

We are granting the right to produce what is known in copyright law as "substantially derivative works" in other media.

In other words by posting an image to the RIL we are granting the community of WC users a limitted license to use that image for reference. We are not granting the right to directly copy or reproduce the image.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:56 PM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

I feel like I am belaboring the point, but... You mean I could paint, say, a digital photo, and it would be okay. But if I tried to make an exact copy of a digital copy of a painting, that is not okay? Define "substantially derivative" I guess is what I am asking.

Frankly, I don't think this issue is ever going to be clear.

I seem to recall that this was an issue with Shepard Fairey's Obama poster. He used an uncopyrighted photo from the AP for a reference, made a posterized poster of it (a la Andy Warhol), donated the artwork to the campaign, and when it became a popular image, the AP threw a fit.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:05 AM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

In my opinion taking the digital file and modifying to produce a digital painting would be stepping over the line.

The photographs are uploaded to the RIL for use as references and use as a photograph is excluded from the permission.
Quote:
User Agreement:
b. With respect to Content you submit to the Reference Image Library, you grant to all other users of the web site a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, world-wide, irrevocable right and license to use your uploaded images as reference images in the creation of new artwork in a different medium (such as painting, sculpture, and so on), and to sell the artwork they create pursuant to this license to use the image. You do not grant other users the right to digitally alter the image or to otherwise use or sell the image in its unaltered state. You retain the copyright to the original image.

14. You represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all the rights to any Content you post or submit to the web site, including but not limited to Content you submit to the Reference Image Library
So print them out and refer to them when painting on screen would be OK but modifying the digital image would not.

Doug

Last edited by Yorky : 03-15-2011 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:25 AM
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Re: Are RIL copyright free for everything?

In point of fact the AP image that Mr. Fairey used was copyrighted. The legal issue was whether or not Fairey's alteration of the photo constituted "fair Use".

The AP had given no permission for their image to be alteresd.

By way of example, if you feel that published photos should be freely available to all, please send me the links to your Flickr, Facebook, Picasa etc and let me have a go at your photos. This of course would also apply to photos of your paintings, etc...

I assume that Marcia would have no problem with me painting copies of the paintings shown in digital form on her website, and then selling them as my own, with no attribution. A copy of a digital copy of a painting....

Shep Fairey's poster is a clearly "substantially derivative" work. One look at it side by side with the original photo removes all doubt about where the image came from.
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