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Old 06-24-2004, 11:20 AM
Irene Prior's Avatar
Irene Prior Irene Prior is offline
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copyright ? on Image reference library

Are the images from the Image reference library are free to use,paint, and sell? If so, let's say I decided to copyright my painting with the copyright office...actually send in my $30. I paint in watercolor and someone else uses the same image reference, but paints it in watercolor, oils, or acrylic and has the (C) symbol on their work or website, but doesn't send in the forms to get it registered with the copyright office. If we all paint the same image, what are we all copyrighting? I'm confused! What do we all own, if anything? Or what are we all protecting?

Irene
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:22 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

I think WC needs to sit down and hammer out a terms of use for the reference library stating what you can do with those images. As it stands now someone can sign up with WC download the library head over to their favorite stock site and upload the good stuff and start making money on them. I wouldn't use any image unless I can get a written statement of how I can use them so I am protected. How do you really know the uploader actually owns the image to give the rights away, I just can't afford a lawsuit.

I saw people complaining in a forum here about someone using a photo for reference and then selling the painting on ebay...I thought that is why the reference library was there for...reference.

The terms just need to be tangible then there would be no misunderstandings and cut down on abuse.

BTW, your copyright would be on the derivitive piece not the original or anyone elses derivitive work and frankly your copyright really wouldn't hold up to copying because it came from a publically available reference no matter if you filed or not, the only thing you would really be protected from was exact duplication(your brush strokes etc) like a photocopy or stealing your image off the internet and printing it out. Does this help?
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Old 06-24-2004, 06:03 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

beautifulfreak,

Yes...this does help.

Irene
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Old 06-25-2004, 04:54 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulfreak
I think WC needs to sit down and hammer out a terms of use for the reference library stating what you can do with those images. As it stands now someone can sign up with WC download the library head over to their favorite stock site and upload the good stuff and start making money on them. I wouldn't use any image unless I can get a written statement of how I can use them so I am protected. How do you really know the uploader actually owns the image to give the rights away, I just can't afford a lawsuit.

I saw people complaining in a forum here about someone using a photo for reference and then selling the painting on ebay...I thought that is why the reference library was there for...reference.

The terms just need to be tangible then there would be no misunderstandings and cut down on abuse.

BTW, your copyright would be on the derivitive piece not the original or anyone elses derivitive work and frankly your copyright really wouldn't hold up to copying because it came from a publically available reference no matter if you filed or not, the only thing you would really be protected from was exact duplication(your brush strokes etc) like a photocopy or stealing your image off the internet and printing it out. Does this help?

The terms ARE tangible, the images in the RIL are there as reference material but the original photographer retains copyright on the PHOTOGRAPH. Read this thread for all the guidelines and rules.

Ruth
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:02 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

You seem to be mistaking guidelines for a legal agreement. Say i go to stock.xchng(a free stock photo supplier) before I download anything I must agree to a legal agreement before they will let me. That agreement tells me what exactly I can use the image for, who retains copyright, and the fact I can't claim the photo is mine. This legal agreement can be access from every page of there catagories if I am ever in doubt.

Now to even see the guideline here at wc I must somehow know to leave the library and find the right forum and know to click on the right thread. The Usage rights need to be spelled out and plainly reachable from the library pages. I should have to agree to it before I download anything so wc has proof I saw it and agreed to it.

Not everyone in the world is honest, and lots of people steal images. Not everyone who trips over WC while surfing has artists' best interests at heart. The reference library just needs a bit of legal protection to protect the photographers rights while supplying the WC community with reference material. Thats all I'm saying.

Last edited by beautifulfreak : 06-25-2004 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Typos, the bane of my existance
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:21 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

I'm going to move this over the the Image Reference library forum where you should get more advice and specifics if you need them. Not a lot of people hanging around the business forums are up to scratch with the RL.

Tina.
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Old 06-25-2004, 04:42 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

personally i think this would be better in site discussions so scott can clarify.
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Old 06-26-2004, 12:45 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

Sorry but all this talk makes me regret ever posting images here or anywhere on the web since they may well be stolen and used in their original state, for someone else's profit with no reimbursement to me the creator of the image.

I have no qualms about possibly giving others inspiration to create art by displaying my images. I applaud the site for approaching this. I hope you all can work it out properly. For it would be a real shame to see this system abused.

I'd really hate to resort to having to place watermarks and/or copyright notices across the middle of the image, just because I can no longer trust my fellow humans.

I was under the impression that by posting anything(of your own) on the web .. that this action immediately gave you copyright to your content.
However it would appear that each of us has to police this ourselves. A lot of work, constanty searching the web for bootlegging activity. Imagine if we all had engines watching for bootleggers using our works .. the net would have so much traffic nothing could get done.
No, the internet needs some world wide standard on this issue but then it is inevitable that the internet will eventually force such things upon us.
Sadly, this does not seem to guarantee insant payable royalties, which would seem to me to be the proper way to do things..

Last edited by man from ironbark : 06-26-2004 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:49 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

ironbank-

I didn't want to upset anyone but I surfed into the reference library through the search box up at the top of the page here on WC, not through the forum. With no clue what I had popped into, there isn't anything on those pages that tell me what those images can be used for, no terms, no guides, nothing. It just seems irresponsible of such a large site like WC not to give the photographers of those images, so generously given, a bit of legal protection as to post a binding agreement on those pages stating that if you download these images you agree to the following terms and list a brief terms of usage. It would end the confusion that some user seem to have over the use of those photos too. Go to any stock photo/image site(istockphoto.com, canstockphoto.com, morguefile.com etc.) to see what I mean, the usage terms are very easy to find and meant to be.

Yes, your images are copyrighted upon creation but when you post them to something called a reference library, reference can mean many things to different people, think of all the kids teachers catch copying their term papers out of "reference" books. So some explaination of the legal uses would help people who know nothing about copyrights. Some very nice honest people out there think that if it is posted on the internet it is free for the taking, especially if they don't find the © symbol on an image, they just don't know.

I went to school for graphic design and had to learn a bit about copyright, image theft, protecting your images and yes, actively searching for your images(and page coding) online. There are many free sources of images out there(many for commercial use which was a huge surprise) but this is the first I came across that I couldn't find the terms of use on the same page as the images themselves. How am I to know to go to a forum to find the "guideline"? Its just something that has been bugging me for awhile I guess, I would hate to see someone's pictures get used in a way they did not agree to, it would make me feel violated too.

I suppose this post is already too long to go into watermarking images artists post to the forums? but please do it....
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Old 06-26-2004, 11:47 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

We will not be watermarking reference images in the library - just an FYI. That defeats the purpose.

I will, however, give some thought to adding some additional information in the user agreement, as well as making this information more visible within the reference image library itself.

Cheers.
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:46 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

yes but her comment was on
Quote:
watermarking images artists post to the forums?
Yes it is valid to provide copyright notices in the library
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Old 06-26-2004, 10:13 PM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

We will not be watermarking images posted to the forums, either. If the artist wishes to do that before they upload it, that is up to them.

I should remind everyone that all images are rendered in browsers at 72 dpi, which is a far cry from what is needed for commercial printing.
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Old 06-28-2004, 04:52 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

It seems very clear to me. The reference library specifically says it's a FREE resource for the creation of NEW artwork. If you're a photograhic artist you wouldn't add your work to the reference library unless you were okay with other people using your work for reference purposes.

There's a photography forum right? and I'm sure all WC members would respect the copyright of images posted on this forum. As a amateur artist I get frustrated because we don't have the free cash to buy up copyrights all over the place. We just want something worthwhile to draw and paint, is that too much to ask?

I think it should be made clear that the reference library is free to be used to make artwork by EVERYONE. If you don't want your photographs used don't upload them to the library, if you don't want other artists doing similiar works in other mediums then don't USE the pics. For those of us who don't have a coat hanger up our butts -- just enjoy.

Last edited by HelgaP : 06-28-2004 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 06-28-2004, 06:48 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

can i tell the wire brush and Dettol joke now?






feel free to ask.

Last edited by man from ironbark : 06-28-2004 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 06-28-2004, 08:10 AM
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Re: copyright ? on Image reference library

Tell! tell! tell!
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