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  • #994001

    Greetings

    What do you think is better (and why) for transparent primary red – quinacridone red (PV 19) or quinacridone magenta (PR 122)?

    #1250071
    Patrick1
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        Despite what some dogmatic people might say, there is no one single ‘correct’ choice.

        PR122 is the ‘truer’ primary in terms of hue, but a lot of artists prefer Quin. Red because it mixes more chromatic reds and oranges. So it depends on whether you want to mix brighter oranges & reds, or purples & blues. The other reds you have (if any) will also determine which is the best choice. If you’ll be mixing it with a complementary green to mix blacks, that too will affect your choice.

        #1250081
        kinasi
        Default

            There are multiple versions of PV19 for starters. Some are red, some pink, some violet. I prefer PR122 because there aren’t a bazillion different versions of it, but it’s pink, not red, it’s basically magenta giving you very clean violets if you add a blue to it.

            I think you must be looking at Winsor & Newton, judging by the names, both their PR122 and PV19 reds and roses are amazing, so pick what suits you best.

            Like Patrick said, it depends what you want. Do you want clean violets or clean oranges? What is it you want, I am assuming this is for those extremely limited CMY palettes. I’m generalizing a bit, but the main function in most standard palettes of the quinacridones is creating a base for pinks and violets, because most people use “real” reds to create oranges or have orange in a tube.

            #1250075
            Mythrill
            Default

                There are multiple versions of PV19 for starters. Some are red, some pink, some violet. I prefer PR122 because there aren’t a bazillion different versions of it, but it’s pink, not red, it’s basically magenta giving you very clean violets if you add a blue to it.

                I think you must be looking at Winsor & Newton, judging by the names, both their PR122 and PV19 reds and roses are amazing, so pick what suits you best.

                Like Patrick said, it depends what you want. Do you want clean violets or clean oranges? What is it you want, I am assuming this is for those extremely limited CMY palettes. I’m generalizing a bit, but the main function in most standard palettes of the quinacridones is creating a base for pinks and violets, because most people use “real” reds to create oranges or have orange in a tube.

                You know, I just don’t see a reason to limit yourself that much. Why can’t you just have split magentas – one for the warm reds, and another for purples and violets?

                #1250082
                kinasi
                Default

                    You know, I just don’t see a reason to limit yourself that much. Why can’t you just have split magentas – one for the warm reds, and another for purples and violets?

                    You can of course. I’m not a fan of CMY+white palettes, I think it’s making things hard on yourself for no reason, but I’m also not into really large palettes. A /*real*/ red (pyrrole or naphthol or something) and a magenta (PR122 or PV19 rose) to get my violets, is all I really need.

                    #1250078
                    llawrence
                    Default

                        For a CMY primaries palette, it would have to be quinacridone magenta PR122.

                        #1250085
                        Bodhi Peace
                        Default

                            Well, confusing … because you said “primary red” instead of

                            … “primary magenta”

                            #1250083
                            kinasi
                            Default

                                Well, confusing … because you said “primary red” instead of

                                … “primary magenta”

                                [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It’s Thursday, today’s primaries are ocean turquoise, mikado yellow and tooty fruity blue deep.[/FONT]

                                #1250076
                                Anonymous

                                    warm reds, and another for purples and violets

                                    Another fine example of why artists always primarily think in terms of red as a pure primary color, but think of magenta as a “leaner”, that is, either more red or more purple.

                                    #1250084

                                    Greetings

                                    What do you think is better (and why) for transparent primary red – quinacridone red (PV 19) or quinacridone magenta (PR 122)?

                                    PR122 WN is a beautiful color, but be BOLD…I agree with the artist who suggested having a warm and cool red. Neither will go to waste.

                                    Angel :angel:
                                    Website Makeover Coming! This is available now.
                                    http://www.artist-bythesea.com/

                                    #1250072
                                    WFMartin
                                    Default

                                        As I may have mentioned on several other threads, I use PV19, as my “Magenta”. Magenta is a primary color, rather than “Red”. Red is a secondary, mixed from the primary colors, Yellow, and Magenta.

                                        While there may be other colors that plot closer to the Magenta “spoke” on the color wheel, in terms of hue, they do so at a reduced chroma (puriry). I have performed studies with color instruments on several colors that I use.

                                        So, my preference for PV19 is a trade-off. I have selected a color that is purer in its plot (it plots nearer to the outer ring of the color wheel), rather than opt for a color that plots closer to the Magenta spoke on the wheel, but at the expense of purity.

                                        A true, primary color reflects 2/3 of the Red, Green, Blue spectrum, while absorbing the remaining third. In the case of Magenta, it reflects both Red and Blue, while absorbing the Green of the White Light (RGB) spectrum.

                                        It will mix with its two, adjacent primary colors, to create secondary colors on either side of it. Magenta will mix with Yellow (on one side) to create the secondary color, Red. It will also mix with Cyan (on the other side) to create the secondary color, Blue (or Violet, in art terms). Primary colors (the true, scientific primary colors) are truly unique in their appearance, and their behavior. No other colors will do what they do.

                                        wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                        https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                        #1250077
                                        Anonymous

                                            Greetings

                                            What do you think is better (and why) for transparent primary red – quinacridone red (PV 19) or quinacridone magenta (PR 122)?

                                            As Bill says, and Winsor Newton agrees, it is PV19, or their Permanent Rose whether in watercolor, acrylic, or oils.
                                            why? they know more than I do.

                                            #1250073
                                            WFMartin
                                            Default

                                                As Bill says, and Winsor Newton agrees, it is PV19, or their Permanent Rose whether in watercolor, acrylic, or oils.
                                                why? they know more than I do.

                                                Here’s the full story behind my use of PV19 as the primary color, Magenta.

                                                Years ago, someone issued a “challenge” on Wet Canvas, that asked us “color theorists” who stressed that Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow are the true, primary color of pigment, to rather put our money where our mouth was, and to create a painting, using only those 3 colors, and White.

                                                The person issuing the challenge also consulted with Winsor & Newton at that time, and got W & N’s recommendation for their truest versions of Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow that they had in their oil paint line.

                                                The 3 paints recommended by W & N were as follows:

                                                For Cyan: W & N “Winsor Blue– Red Shade 706” (PB15)

                                                For Magenta: “W & N Permanent Rose 502” (PV19)

                                                For Yellow: “W & N Transparent Yellow 653” (PY128)

                                                I decided to “play the game” all the way, and I used them for the challenge. I created a very nice, small painting that I titled, “First Breath of Spring”, as I recall, using only those 3 paints, and White.

                                                These are all magnificent, transparent colors, that come as close to anything I’ve encountered as being the true, scientific primary colors.

                                                Transparency in a paint provides for the creation of wonderful, deep “darks”, and when White is mixed with each of them, they burst into into high-chroma colors.

                                                Since the day of that “challenge”, here on Wet Canvas, I’ve been considering these colors to be my “primary colors”, and I’ve been using them as such. Oh, I believe that I have gone to Grumbacher’s Thalo Blue (PB15), and Grumbacher’s Thalo Red Rose (PV19), but they are the same colors, and the same pigment ID’s. My change in selection has to do with availability, and price, rather than color.

                                                wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                                https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                                #1250080
                                                Bastet469
                                                Default

                                                    Here’s the full story behind my use of PV19 as the primary color, Magenta.

                                                    Years ago, someone issued a “challenge” on Wet Canvas, that asked us “color theorists” who stressed that Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow are the true, primary color of pigment, to rather put our money where our mouth was, and to create a painting, using only those 3 colors, and White.

                                                    Hey,
                                                    I’d love to see the paintings from the challenge. Are they posted on the forum somewhere?

                                                    -wendy


                                                    [FONT=Palatino Linotype]"I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day."
                                                    -Jean-Michel Basquiat [FONT=Palatino Linotype]
                                                    Boy and Dog in a Johnnypump

                                                    #1250079
                                                    savras
                                                    Default

                                                        Hey,
                                                        I’d love to see the paintings from the challenge. Are they posted on the forum somewhere?

                                                        -wendy

                                                        Here is the thread:

                                                        https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561821

                                                        And here is Bill’s painting:

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