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  • #479583
    AnnieA
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        I have a homework assignment to paint a scene on a surface with a minimum side of 18″. At first, I thought I’d use one of the masonite panels that I haven’t ever managed to get around to constructing the cradling, and I think that’ll be required for that large a size. I know there are people here who paint on ACM panels and that’s what I’m considering since I really don’t have the time to fuss with a first time cradle construction project.

        But I have questions about ACM panels. I’ve found what I think is an ACM panel on Amazon that looks promising and will arrive quickly:
        Aluminum Composite Sign Panel Sheet 1/8″ X 24″ X 24″ – White

        There are a lot of similar panels by a company called Falken that are actually less expensive, but they take a long time do deliver and my class would be over before the panel arrived. Other than those, the one I linked is my only Amazon possibility and I prefer Amazon because I have free shipping. I also like this one because it’s already a good size for painting on and I won’t have to mess around with cutting the aluminum.

        So for those who use ACM panels, can you confirm that this one is OK to purchase to paint on? And if so, what kind of prep do I need? My instructor paints on very smooth panels and I’d like to try his approach. Will I need to prime it? Use gesso? Several coats of gesso and sanding between them? Or can I just jump in and start painting? Is it a good thickness for artwork? Any other thoughts?

        TIA for your input.

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        #899400
        Antonin
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            But I have questions about ACM panels. I’ve found what I think is an ACM panel on Amazon that looks promising and will arrive quickly:
            [URL=https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Composite-Sign-Panel-Sheet/dp/B00PUVSZZG/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?keywords=Aluminum+Composite+Material+%28ACM%29+panel+-falken&pd_rd_i=B00PUVSZZG&pd_rd_r=d38ed7e7-b116-40a4-8420-6b6a5d7576ef&pd_rd_w=JcViw&pd_rd_wg=5IS5h&pf_rd_p=a6d018ad-f20b-46c9-8920-433972c7d9b7&pf_rd_r=7WF5KG2H4PQC25ADMNZS&qid=1572153282]Aluminum Composite Sign Panel Sheet 1/8″ X 24″ X 24″ – White[/URL]

            Other than those, the one I linked is my only Amazon possibility and I prefer Amazon because I have free shipping.

            Your link doesn’t say that shipping is free, it’s $13.50 (or are you an Amazon employee?). Isn’t the same thing listed here https://www.amazon.com/SIBE-R-PLASTIC-SUPPLY-ALUMINUM-COMPOSITE/dp/B01AYBN0B0/ref=pd_sbs_328_10?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01AYBN196&pd_rd_r=762bbbdb-f85e-4d02-a0a8-583144d95d29&pd_rd_w=8d5Qo&pd_rd_wg=6ls6z&pf_rd_p=52b7592c-2dc9-4ac6-84d4-4bda6360045e&pf_rd_r=Q46QEDMQ0VDF891N7FTZ&refRID=Q46QEDMQ0VDF891N7FTZ&th=1 for $2.28 cheaper and it’s still from the same company and with the same shipping charge?

            Have you seen the article on Golden’s website about priming ACM?
            https://www.justpaint.org/painting-on-dibond/

            #899402
            contumacious
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                You might want to contact the following type of businesses near you:

                Sign Shop – Most companies that make signs for people and businesses will have some type of ACM Panels in stock.

                Sign Shop Supplier – A company that sells the ACM Panels to the sign makers. This type of business should be the lowest price. If you have a business license, even less.

                Ask them how much they want for a 3mm thick 4 ft x 8 ft white panel. You should be able to get 8 24×24 panels for about $15 more than you are paying for one from amazon.

                If you can find a decent price (under $50 for a 4×8 x 3mm(1/8″) panel, come back and we can talk about how to get it home and how to easily cut it up yourself with nothing more than a table, craft knife and a straight edge.

                #899398
                AnnieA
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                    Antonin, thanks! I hadn’t noticed the shipping charge; I guess I was so happy to find one that shipped quickly I just didn’t see it and I’m glad you pointed it out. The Just Paint article was interesting and I can see the process of getting to the point where I can paint on this panel may be much more involved than I anticipated.

                    contumacious: I plan to start searching for local sign shops/suppliers asap. Is there a particular brand of ACM panel that you use. I’m thinking if so and I can find the same one, I might be able to skip the testing that Golden recommends. I plan to use a Kilz primer that I already have, unless you would recommend otherwise. Ah yes, getting the darn thing home. This will be problematic, as I use the bus. But it seems to me that, for a charge, the sign company might be willing to cut the sheet for me, and with manageable pieces I probably can transport it home, even on the bus. I will probably need help with how to protect the edges during transport. Another issue is that because I live in a small space, most of my furniture is likewise small, and I don’t have a table that can accommodate a 4×8 ft sheet! Maybe pre-cut panels and an Uber is the answer. :lol: Thanks very much for your offer of assistance.

                    [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                    [FONT=Palatino]
                    “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

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                    #899405
                    Richard P
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                        Annie: I lightly sand an ACM panel, clean, and then paint on one coat of W&N Clear Gesso. I then lightly sand that with a super fine piece of sandpaper.

                        That’s it, I like that surface :)

                        #899401
                        Antonin
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                            The Just Paint article was interesting and I can see the process of getting to the point where I can paint on this panel may be much more involved than I anticipated.

                            I wonder if you couldn’t just give the white polyester finish of the ACM panel a quick deglossing with fine steel wool, wipe it down with alcohol and then roll on a thin coat of thinned-down matte acrylic medium (maybe add a small amount of white acrylic paint to it) with a fine celled foam paint roller. Let it dry for a couple days and then start your painting. A film that’s mostly acrylic medium should hold very securely to the polyester finish.

                            Edit: Richard, we both posted about the same time. Do you find the W/N clear gesso gritty? Doesn’t it cause your brushes to wear down quickly? I tried it years ago and stopped using it because of it’s coarse grain. The sanding with fine sandpaper, does it make things less abrasive?

                            #899403
                            contumacious
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                                Kilz should work fine as your first coat. It dries really fast so you will have to apply it quickly. You might be able to apply it more smoothly with a roller, possibly thinning it a bit per the instructions on the can so it rolls on smoothly. You don’t have to prime the ACM panel, but acrylic gesso can chip flake or peel off more easily if you don’t prime it first. Sanding is pretty much required for the best bonding. XIM UMA was by far the best primer I tested with acrylic gesso as the ground. Gesso alone came of quite easily doing the scored lines then Gorilla tape stuck on and pulled off, like in the Golden testing. If you plan to use them in the future, I would highly recommend the XIM UMA then your preferred ground for a really solid surface.

                                As for panels, I use M-panel house brand from Montroy.com at $43 / 4×8 sheet of 3mm, but you might not be able to find any where you live. They have limited locations and none in the Northwest. Grimco.com has 4×8 3mm Max Metal panels for $56, white coated on one side. They have a location in Seattle. If that is not close to you, look for 3A Composites E-Panel, Montroy M-Panel, Signabond Lite or other lower cost offerings rather than actual Dibond as you will save at least half over Dibond and wont’ be giving up much. Most supply or actual sign making shops should be willing to cut the full sheet up for you for a fee. It wouldn’t hurt to ask if they have an scraps to sell you that are at least 18″ long. They would also likely cut you a just one 18 inch by whatever single panel, but the price might be more than buying one from Amazon.

                                This video link below is almost exactly how I cut the panels and it works perfectly every time. Substitute the XIM UMA for the primer they use in the video. They used silver finished Dibond, but I would suggest going with the white primed stuff.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioSLo9BTiIw

                                Good luck with the assignment!

                                #899406
                                Richard P
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                                    Sanding it lightly does remove a lot of the roughness. I also only use walnut oil as a medium so it glides over the surface.

                                    #899399
                                    AnnieA
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                                        RichardP, contumacious and Antonin: thank you all for the additional information.

                                        At this point, my plan is to sand with extremely fine sandpaper, and apply a coat of Kilz primer. I have both oil based and water based Kilz. I suspect the oil based would be better but it will take too long to dry so the plan now is to use the water-based version, unless anyone advises against it. As I understand it, the water-based primer coat should be sufficiently dry in about 24 hours. Then, do I need a coat of gesso on top of the primer in order to have sufficient tooth on the surface to hold the paint, or will the primer alone be enough?

                                        TIA for any further advice or thoughts.

                                        [FONT=Arial]C&C always welcome ©[/I] [/font]
                                        [FONT=Palatino]
                                        “Life is a pure flame and we live by an invisible sun within us.” ― Sir Thomas Browne [/size][/font]

                                        http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/29-Jul-2007/85002-sig-thumbnail_composite_2.jpg]/img]

                                        #899407
                                        Richard P
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                                            Annie: The polyester coating is tougher than it appears, you can use a rougher sandpaper (with care) without going through the coating.

                                            #899404
                                            contumacious
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                                                You can paint directly on the sanded factory priming coat if you want a slippery and flat surface. It is pretty nice actually. You can also paint directly on your Kilz primer if you want. You can apply Acrylic Gesso or Oil Ground as well directly to the sanded polyester coil coat, or for better adhesion, particularly with the Acrylic Gesso, on top of some Kilz or other primer. But as noted already, the best adhesion I found for acrylic gesso is XIM UMA Bonder Primer which also makes a nice semi absorbent ground with nothing on top of it. You should try some out if you end up using a bunch of ACM panels later.

                                                To take away the smooth gloss surface of the factory priming, I use 400 grit wet dry sandpaper on a rubber backed sanding block with lot of water on the surface. I do that in in the bathtub or over a utility sink. If you go much finer than 320 grit the chance of cutting through the very thin factory priming is greater, but if you do, it isn’t a huge deal unless you were going to paint directly on the factory polyester coil coat. Even with 400 grit used wet I often cut through in a few spots on the edges and corners, to bare metal. Some brands have thicker factory priming than others.

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