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  • #993768
    JHeller
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        hi all,
        I’ve just joined so apologies if this is an old theme but I couldn’t find my way around the searches.

        Can anyone recommend a small, fairly lightweight (max around 17kg) printing press for doing relief and etching prints?

        I’m looking at Tofko Mini Press, Gerstaeker kd31 or the ABIG 400. Would be great to get views on these, or on others that are recommended.

        I live in Essex, UK. I’ve been printmaking at a workshop for about 2 years but would like to do it at home. May eventually move to a bigger and better press but really feel like I’m just starting out. My “studio” is in the loft so it can’t be too heavy!

        Thanks for your tips and words of wisdom!

        #1246344
        Heft
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            Hello,
            I am unfamiliar with any of these presses or manufacturers. So just some thoughts while looking at the info on line:
            Make sure the press bed will accommodate the plates you will be making. Remember that it has to be both wide enough and long enough to get both plate and the print paper (with its border size) completely through.
            Printing etching plates and collagraph plates can require a lot of pressure. I mention this because the base material the structure of the press is made from can be important. If you intend to send a lot of deeply etched plates or collagraphs through it that require pushing paper deeply into recesses I would consider passing on the Gerstaeker because of the cast iron base. Cast iron bases have been known to crack with extended use.
            Speaking of collagraphs and reliefs, make sure that you can get the thickness of plate, paper, felts, etc. through your press.
            2 of the presses have steel beds, which are fine. My table top Charles Brand has a stainless steel bed which is nice in that it makes rust much less of an issue. The Abig looks like it has a plywood bed with a steel layer on top of that. I would want to know if the bottom of the bed is also protected from bearing and roller wear.
            The rollers are usually steel. The Gerstaeker doesn’t say what the roller material is and the photos show a goldish color which is odd.
            Also, make sure you have a good sturdy base or table to put this on. Direct drive presses can require some muscle to crank and if the press isn’t connected to a sturdy base it can move around.

            JDH

            [FONT=Century Gothic]www.jdheft.com

            #1246351
            Jeffro Jones
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                I’ve been printmaking at a workshop for about 2 years but would like to do it at home. May eventually move to a bigger and better press but really feel like I’m just starting out.

                Small etching presses are a waste of time. You need some muscle and a decent set of rollers to get a sweet print, and tabletop presses lack both. They may be OK for small relief prints, but not for etchings. You need at least a 6 inch diameter in the rollers, IMHO, no matter the width of the rollers. The presses you mention have a max of 80mm. for the top roller, which will produce nothing more than an underdone, squashed, malnourished print, so stay away from them. Presuming the workshop you go to has some decent presses, it may be sensible to stick with them.

                Another alternative, if you are confident in dealing with these issues, is researching and designing a little press with fat rollers and good power, and finding an engineering workshop to give you a quote. I built one myself, but it was a bit of a saga. Happy to contribute ideas if you need to go down that path.

                #1246355
                RobbieK
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                    I appreciate your reply. Obviously you have some experience in using an etching press. I do find it somewhat discouraging, though, what with the cost, weight, and availability of used floor presses

                    I’ve been wondering about table-top presses, and don’t wish to spend 700-2000 USD to find out I can’t effectively print an etching

                    "You can't be that kid standing at the top of the water slide, overthinking it. You have to go down the chute". Tina Fey

                    #1246352
                    Jeffro Jones
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                        I’ve been wondering about table-top presses, and don’t wish to spend 700-2000 USD to find out I can’t effectively print an etching

                        Yes, very understandable. Look, a table-top press will print your etching, but (IMHO) it lacks the capacity to deliver a “sweet” print – that quality where ink and paper are fused as one, the lines are crisp, the textures defined and the whole has the desired blush of plate-tone. For that, you need good pressure and fat rollers.

                        Table-Top presses are built with thin rollers, but I found some fat little rollers at a scrap yard, and built a small press around them. As the press only needs strength between the rollers, as the printing process tries to force them apart, that is the only section of the frame that needs to be steel. The rest of the frame is plywood, the wheel is 4 pine spokes, and the bed is mainly fibreboard with a steel plate inset in the middle to back the etching plate. By using these weight reduction methods, I have a strong little press that is not going to go through the floorboards. And it prints a small plate beautifully, but for plates larger than say, A5, I have to go to a print workshop.

                        The reason I keep referring to “fat rollers” is that as the rollers increase in diameter, so the sweet spot – where the rollers are delivering significant crushing force through the blankets – increases; and the etching is produced not just by pressure, but pressure delivered over a greater area for a greater time. These factors combine to produce a better print. Again, IMHO :)

                        #1246345
                        Heft
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                            I agree with Mr. Jones that table top presses can be problematic, however, to say that all are a waste of time IMHO is going overboard. Not all table top presses are created the same. Research prospective presses thoroughly.

                            Also, stating that a 6″ dia roller is the minimum required to print an etching successfully is not my experience. I’ve been using a table top press with 2.75″ dia rollers top and bottom since the early 1980’s. I have printed etchings, engraving, collagraphs, monotypes, monoprints, and linocuts with the press (largest plate through my press is 10″ x 12″). As important as the press is, successful intaglio prints also depend on a knowledge of paper, moisture, ink, pressure,the skill of the printer in wiping, etc.

                            Roller diameter has more to do with the width of the bed and the increased amount of pressure required to maintain an even pressure across the width of the bed. If the rollers are too small a diameter for the width (and material of the roller also feeds into this) the pressure will warp or dent the roller when a plate is passed through. The area of pressure, whether an 8″ diameter or a 3″ diameter roller, assuming a properly made roller with no flat spots or warping, will always be a single line wide by the width of the roller or the width of the plate being rolled through. Because of the many differences in design and materials I’ve read different opinions on what the roller diameters should be. The rule of thumb seems to be the top roller should be about 1/4 the width of the bed in diameter e.g., a 12″ wide press bed would indicate a 3″ diameter roller minimum.

                            All that being said… research your press. If it is at all possible, get some time on the press and try out some plates you are familiar with.

                            JDH

                            [FONT=Century Gothic]www.jdheft.com

                            #1246347
                            lovestofish
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                                In the end – it comes down to what works for you. I printed on some tabletop presses belonging to friends and at different shops that left me feeling underwhelmed. But, the owners of the press were satisfied with their performance. I think mezzotints are prints where you are really pushing to get the max pressure to the plate – etchings do not require as much but still, the preference is to get that max pressure if you desire – more so than collagraphs or relief. A larger roller diameter helps transmit pressure evenly and efficiently. A steel bed helps as well. And yes, not all tabletop presses are created equal. When I saw this thread I sensed there would be a number of different opinions. I have been looking at etching presses off and on – and some of the tabletop varieties are very sophisticated – and expensive. But, I have used some that were pretty sketchy – and limited in how much pressure I felt I could expect – and with a lot of play on the bed during printing. And – I have used some really nice ones. However, I completely understand about budget considerations. The general truth is that most people that look at your prints will not be likely to tell what kind of press you used. I have heard a parallel argument in the case of litho plates vs. litho stones – in most cases you will not be able to discern from the print if you printed from a stone or a plate. But, your search sounds like fun. Enjoy.

                                #1246353
                                Jeffro Jones
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                                    I believe pressure is delivered over an area, not in a line.
                                    The central line will of course recieve the most pressure.
                                    But if you are being run over by a steamroller, you will feel it before you get to the centre :)

                                    #1246346
                                    Heft
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                                        Great illustration. Thank you for taking the time to put that together. Of course you are correct that pressure is over an area… however, it is not, as you acknowledge, equal pressure from point of the plate being grabbed by light pressure at the edge to the point directly under the center of the roller where the pressure is greatest. You apparently believe that the lighter pressures and the small amount of additional time the plate/paper spend under the lighter pressures are important to the final print. Ok. I don’t agree, but then both you and I are expressing opinions based on our individual experiences. To me the important issue is that when you set the dials on a press it is for that line of most pressure directly under the center of the roller because that is where the complete plate will eventually pass under. And that line of pressure should be equal across the width of the plate – roller size, material, construction method, etc. all add together for the success or failure. This is one of the reasons intaglios of any size are rarely printed on something similar to a book press because getting an even, high pressure across the complete plate at once is problematic.

                                        In either case, we both have evidently experienced, as well as lovestofish and others I’m sure, that there are some table top presses that just don’t make the grade for a number of reasons and diligent research, including trying out the press if possible, is important.

                                        JDH

                                        [FONT=Century Gothic]www.jdheft.com

                                        #1246354
                                        Jeffro Jones
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                                            You apparently believe that the lighter pressures and the small amount of additional time the plate/paper spend under the lighter pressures are important to the final print.

                                            Yes.

                                            however, it is not, as you acknowledge, equal pressure from point of the plate being grabbed by light pressure at the edge to the point directly under the center of the roller where the pressure is greatest.

                                            Agreed. It must surely be a gradual increase of pressure to its greatest force, then a gradual decrease as the plate passes through the rollers.

                                            To me the important issue is that when you set the dials on a press it is for that line of most pressure directly under the center of the roller because that is where the complete plate will eventually pass under. And that line of pressure should be equal across the width of the plate –

                                            Yes, I see what you mean.

                                            Thanks for your thoughtful reply, it is much appreciated. It is always a pleasure to debate with civilised people. There is another component of delivering pressure that warrants mention. The sturdier the rollers and the sidepanels, the less they are going to distort when the plate goes through. I know the distortion cannot be much, but I suspect that is an area of pressure loss that affects the performance of smaller presses.

                                            So that if the tension screws in a small and large press are both set to deliver the same pressure, the small press will lose more pressure through distortion of its rollers. Again, just my humble opinion, I lack access to the laboratory to confirm these thoughts :lol:

                                            cheers :)

                                            #1246357
                                            intaglioman
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                                                Hello from across the pond ! I just purchased my second etching press. There are many small benchtop etching and relief presses available. The better presses are not cheap. My first press was from Rembrandt Graphic Arts Co. and was the Pelican model. My second press (on order) is made by Charles Brand Co. Model E18 (denotes the width)
                                                Dick Blick offers a small benchtop press that is affordable. Your previous mentors here have offered lots of good information…so no need for me to recreate the wheel. Look at the reviews of each press and keep notes. If you have any art school or local college that teaches printmaking…it would be a good idea.
                                                Best of luck on your quest !
                                                Paul

                                                #1246356
                                                RobbieK
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                                                    Thanks for all the replies. Am learning, so keep ’em coming.

                                                    I’m taking my 2nd printmaking class at the local university (free tuition – over age 60 !). First class was Intaglio, now I’m taking “beginning”. There’s a large Charles Brand press that weighs… a lot…

                                                    Would like to do more than relief printing at home, but I’ve seen a lot of good quality linocuts, woodcuts, and monotypes.

                                                    Appreciate your willingness.

                                                    "You can't be that kid standing at the top of the water slide, overthinking it. You have to go down the chute". Tina Fey

                                                    #1246348

                                                    I’ve looked over all of the above comments…. and all of them make good sense. There are a lot of smart folks here.

                                                    I’d like to throw another idea into the mix of suggestions: build your own press. I do all of my work nowadays on presses I’ve built, and have discovered that home-made presses can do everything that a factory-made press can do but cost far less money.

                                                    My latest machine is an 18″ etching press, that I designed and built myself. While I haven’t drawn up any plans for my press, it is very similar to those available on http://www.buildapress.com/ .

                                                    For my press, I used a hard urethane roller that required no machining, and was made from over-the-counter materials. Here’s a link to how I made it: http://www.briarpress.org/41164

                                                    I also use a small “sign-press” type press that I built and posted here a few years ago….. and a very small free-roller press. (pics are attached)

                                                    If you are in the least bit “handy”…. and you probably are since you are a printmaker…. building your own press is a good way to get a very nice machine for a lot less money. Quite frankly, I’m a bit of a clutz in a workshop…. and if I can make one, almost anyone can.

                                                    "Political Correctness" is just another way to muzzle free expression

                                                    #1246350
                                                    IanBertram
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                                                        From direct experience I recommend you look at Hawthorne presses.

                                                        http://hawthornprintmaker.com/index.php/hawthorn-presses.html

                                                        They make three sizes, including a tabletop. I looked at that but bought the next size up, on financial grounds as much as anything. The increased print size it gave me seemed well worth the extra. The side plates are around 2cm thick (3/4″) so substantial. It has a geared drive and pressure is set by a vernier scale, so no counting turns needed.

                                                        I also bought the wheeled press stand, since my press shares space with a studio easel and I have to move things around from time to time.

                                                        Overall, I’m very happy with it.

                                                        Ian
                                                        Website - https://ianbertramartist.uk
                                                        Instagram: - https://www.instagram.com/ianbertramuk/
                                                        Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/ianbertramartist/

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