Home Forums Explore Media Pastels Soft Pastel Talk Pastels on watercolor paper?

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  • #991126
    pastelmimigt
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        Has anyone used w/c paper successfully for pastel painting? I tried it on what I think was hot press and got the honeycomb look, which I don’t like. Also, do you need to wet the paper, staple it to a board & let it dry (I think that’s called stretching)? I’m looking to recycle supports not used for their original purpose. Thanks!

        Michele

        #1191399
        mudfish
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            Have tried it wet and dry, didn’t like it as a single medium but it works OK as an addition to a watercolor underpainting. You can put gesso or medium on watercolor paper to alter the surface if it’s 300 lb; do both sides or it’ll warp.

            "there's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women"
            Madeleine Albright

            #1191397
            allydoodle
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                I’ve used hot press watercolor paper primed with Golden Fine Pumice Gel, as well as Art Spectrum Colourfix Primer. I prefer the Golden, I like the texture better. I did a couple of paintings on hot press with Colourfix that I like (framed them). I also did one painting on cold press primed with Colourfix and I liked it (also framed it), but I couldn’t get another one to cooperate quite as well on the cold press. The hot press seems to work better (to my taste), no texture comes through as it’s very smooth. I do tape it down very well and then roll on the primer, if it buckles it seems to flatten out as it dries. I still cannot find a sanded primer that I like as much as Wallis or Uart 400….. so far Golden Fine Pumice Gel is the best I’ve found. I use it for plein air sketches, I haven’t framed anything using it yet.

                Chris - WetCanvas Guide, Pastel Forum

                #1191398
                Colorix
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                    I’ve used it with watercolour underpainting, and as support for pastel primer.

                    If the wc paper is thick enough (like, 300), then it is supposed to do without stretching when using wet media, but in my humble opinion it still needs streching. When you use it dry, there’s no need to strech.

                    Cold press tends to have more structure, while hot press tends to be more smooth. There are at least 3 grades of texture to be had within each (hot or cold).

                    You can also sand down the ‘bumps’ on (dry) wc paper a bit. That will loosen some fibres (“comb” the paper), but that is an advantage, as pastels adhere much better.

                    Charlie

                    Charlie's Site/Blog

                    #1191396
                    Don Ketchek
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                        There’s no need to wet and stretch it unless you intend to work on it while wet with watercolor or other wet media. Since the surface of watercolor paper is not meant to hold pastel, I would do as Chris does – add a ground such as Colourfix primer. You do want to have a surface that is meant to hold the pastel particles, in my opinion.

                        Don

                        #1191390
                        robertsloan2
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                            I’ve always used Colourfix primer on watercolor paper. But I’ve often seen watercolorists use pastel accents on it and some of the cold press papers I’ve used would have enough tooth that they’d handle like plain paper – the Artagain or Mi-Tientes sort of thing. I wouldn’t try pastel on hot press without a primer though that might depend on brand and the actual surface of the paper. They vary a lot.

                            Hot press is the smoothest watercolor paper and will take priming without any competing texture interfering with the sanded primer. The problem is that sometimes hot press is too smooth and doesn’t hold pastels well. I would work differently on a surface like that and maybe stick to pastel pencils or hard sticks for a sketching sort of look, maybe with some soft blended areas for contrast. I wouldn’t expect to do much layering on it without a sanded primer.

                            One thing I wish I’d packed along when I moved is a partly complete pastel journal. I bought a wirebound watercolor-and-sketch journal at Blick and started systematically priming all the watercolor pages with different hues of Colourfix primer. The sketch paper they interleafed with the watercolor pages became barrier sheets for pastel paintings. I meant to use this journal for plein air and it’d be perfect here in San Francisco – but it’s in the boxes that are still back in Arkansas.

                            I might try something similar cutting up glassine though and taping it to the ends of sheets in one of the watercolor journals I have here. Don’t have the full range of Colourfix primers any more but I could at least prepare pages for painting on site with watercolor to tone them. Or do some pages with watercolor underpainting on the spot, even if it’d take two visits to the same place to do the piece totally plein air.


                            Robert A. Sloan, proud member of the Oil Pastel Society
                            Site owner, artist and writer of http://www.explore-oil-pastels-with-robert-sloan.com
                            blogs: Rob's Art Lessons and Rob's Daily Painting

                            #1191393
                            pastelmimigt
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                                Thanks for all the responses. I got into another project & forgot about this thread. :rolleyes:

                                Ok, I think I understand:

                                Tape the w/c paper down completely to a board (all edges)
                                Brush on pumice gel (do I have to use a roller?)
                                When dry, remove tape and it’s ready for pastel

                                Correct?

                                I do plan to wash the first layer with denatured alcohol. The paper is pretty thick, so I think it’s higher than 300. I, too, prefer Wallis (heavy-handed – need to lighten up, lol), so will look for the Golden Fine Pumice Gel.

                                Question, how do you do both sides of the paper to prevent warping? :confused:

                                Michele

                                #1191394
                                pastelmimigt
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                                    Has anyone used Golden Acryic Pastel Ground? Do you like it? What sanded paper would you compare it to?

                                    Michele

                                    #1191391
                                    robertsloan2
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                                        I use Colourfix Multimedia Primer and haven’t tried the Golden products, though Colourfix Supertooth Primer is closer to Wallis in a rougher tooth. I don’t prime the backs of sheets. Either a cheap inch wide watercolor flat or a sponge brush can be used to apply it. The cheap sponge hobby brushes are fantastic for priming. They can be washed out and reused endlessly.

                                        It will wear out watercolor flats eventually because of the grit in it though.

                                        I’ve heard of people gessoing backs of actual boards to reduce warping, either masonite boards or heavy mat board sorts of stuff. On watercolor paper I don’t bother. I do often leave a taped edge unprimed though and that helps reduce warping.

                                        If you want to prime both sides, don’t waste the good sanded primer on the back. Use cheap gesso on the back. Do one side and then when it’s dry do the other, I’d think.


                                        Robert A. Sloan, proud member of the Oil Pastel Society
                                        Site owner, artist and writer of http://www.explore-oil-pastels-with-robert-sloan.com
                                        blogs: Rob's Art Lessons and Rob's Daily Painting

                                        #1191400
                                        Lynndidj
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                                            Michele,

                                            If you want to see work done on watercolor paper, look up Sally Strand. She often uses watercolor paper for her work. She does wet it and staple it, and then does a watercolor underpainting. I believe she uses Arches cold press, 140 lb., and it has a fair amount of texture to it. Sally has a technique that uses lots of layering of pastel, and the watercolor paper works beautifully for her without any additional sanded grounds. I have taken her “Color of Light” workshop twice (yes, it was THAT good) and used watercolor paper and pastel. It is definitely different than working on sanded paper, but it does make for a beautiful painting! This technique works best with a little harder pastels – I like using Giraults – many use Rembrandts – saving the softies for the very end.

                                            Lynn

                                            #1191395
                                            pastelmimigt
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                                                Robert – thanks. Gives me more to look into, lol.

                                                Lynn – thanks. I really like the idea of using no sanded primer (dont’t have to spend anymore money!). I think I went right for my Great Americans when I tested & got the honeycombed look. Time to try again with Nupastels & Rembrandts. :-)

                                                #1191404
                                                J.D.
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                                                    Back in the day, when I bought my first set of pastels a uninformed salesperson told me that I needed to use w/c paper for pastels. it was good that I did not have much money then, as I could not buy very much paper. needless to say I didn’t have good results, and almost put down my pastels for good. Fortunately a friend directed me to Canson MI (as it was the cheapest pastel paper) and encouraged me to try other supports that were made for pastels.

                                                    Today I do use w/c paper, but when it has been treated with Pumice Gel. I have also experimented with staining w/c paper with coffee and tea. As a result instead of bright white specks shining through the finished work (which looks very unnatural.) you have more natural earthy brown specks showing through, unifying the painting.

                                                    Hope this helps.
                                                    JD


                                                    "Some people say that the cup is half full. Others say that the cup is half empty. But I say that either way it is not enough coffee."
                                                    "It takes two artists to paint a picture, one to paint it and the other to tell you when to STOP"

                                                    #1191389
                                                    JPQ
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                                                        i used rough and i liked and i going use again. and first reason why i buyed soft pastels is add details my aquarelle works now i like them even my own use in pure form. and i going do works this way i made background with watercolour and add more stuff with pastels.

                                                        #1191388

                                                        If you are getting a honeycomb look to your pastels, then your paper is “NOT” surface – quite different to hot press, which is smooth and not bumpy and will not give you a honeycomb look.

                                                        Watercolour paper comes, usually, in three types of surface….rough, NOT (or CP, cold pressed …NOT means, literally, not hot pressed, and Hot pressed. Here is an official quote:
                                                        here are three main surface textures to watercolour papers, HP, CP (NOT) and Rough. HP stands for ‘hot pressed’ and is the smoothest paper suitable for high detail work. CP stands for ‘cold pressed’ (and is also known as NOT – as in ‘not hot pressed’) is a slightly textured surface and popular because it is suitable for most types of work. Finally, there is ‘rough’, which is exactly what its name suggests, suitable for landscapes, seascapes etc., where a heavily textured paper enhances the final piece of work

                                                        You only need to stretch watercolour paper if you intend to soak it……and even then, if you use very expensive, heavier weights of watercolor paper, you don’t even need to stretch those.
                                                        Jackie

                                                        J

                                                        #1191403
                                                        dottycom
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                                                            I started using Lascoux pastel ground on masonite and I can control the texture. I gesso it first and the next coats are Lascaux to control the texture you can do it thinly or as you prefer. I’ve done 300 + 140lb watercolor but don’t like the texture or paper showing through, and I use a lot more pastels to cover the base layer on paper. Also, masonite or hardwood, is cheaper. I get a lot of layering effects with my rembrandt pastels this way. Ampersand also makes pastel primed board, but I prefer keeping the cost down too!

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