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  • #485634
    ilya K
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        Hello,

        I was thinking where this would belong too. It could be color theory or landscapes, but I prefer it to be here because it’s also about technique and it must be oil.

        I did more than one attempt to paint European historical buildings, English term is “half-timbered”. Example from my photo (that was in Strasburg):

        We live among that but it’s a really tough task to paint. My first failure was using mostly earth colors for everything. It turned out so dead, dry and gloomy that I stopped and had to do something else oversaturated to soothe my eyes. :) Now I banned earths for that, and I can do walls (infill between the frames) much better.

        But the frame remains my challenge. In reality it is almost always deep brown like burnt umber, or maybe a bit warmer. The contrast to the white infill is high and this is indeed what makes those buildings attractive. But somehow on a painting it does not work at all. Such high contrast and detail over detail demand the rest to be painted in the same way, and this is beyond my ability and actually I want it to look lighter.

        I tried different colors instead of burnt umber, reddish like burnt sienna, or deep yellowish, but no, it’s not getting me anywhere.

        Regarding technique, I also tried both, first walls then frame, and, just out of despair, the opposite too (but the latter is a killing task obviously).

        Tried to search for examples but could not find any. Maybe you have something in your mind? In which direction would you go with colors and technique? Any examples you saw? Or… should I forget it and try skyscrapers? :)

        Thank you!

        Ilya K
        C&C always welcome

        #963881
        KEVIN$
        Default

            I’m speaking from my opinion and not necessarily directed towards a specific subject but if you have your “failures” to practice on what I’ve discovered I like the most is high contrast between dark and light colors.

            I find the darkest areas and make them even darker and the lightest areas even lighter. Now, with this approach I have discovered that too much dark and too much light can be overwhelming to the overall image so I use this idea very sparingly.

            My technique goes like this:
            1. Step back from the image and simply look for a few areas that could be darker..just 1-3 areas at first. Maybe a single shadow or ?? but not everything in that area. I think when you look at it this way you will see areas that could use some obvious darkening.

            2. Do the same thing with an area or subjects that could use a few spots of lighter color. I’ve found that going lighter with just a few small spots goes a LONG way so I choose wisely and make sure I don’t go overboard.

            A note on adding dark shadows that I am finding that works for me: If I have a shadow that needs to be darker wood (for example) instead of adding just black to brown I may add a tad of Indigo Blue (VERY DARK blue color) to the black and brown mixture. Adding alternate colors tends to keep the image from looking flat but again I do this sparingly at first.

            I find that just doing the above gives my images more depth that I enjoy but I step back a lot to make sure I haven’t done too much. If it’s a painting that I am wanting to look perfect then I do this approach over several days or a week to make sure I haven’t gone too far and usually the areas get smaller and smaller as I fine tune the piece.

            ks

            Kevin Slaby
            2002 Mustang - 902hp but BROKE at 953hp
            http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm

            #963885
            ilya K
            Default

                Kevin, thank you. It’s interesting. I missed to comment on your two last paintings, but I wanted to say that you changed your style a bit and you do much more contrast now, and before, your figure paintings were mostly soft. I think you aim for a different impression now (but I may be wrong in guessing :) ), and I like that.

                Thanks again for the tips and all the best with the coming art show!

                Ilya K
                C&C always welcome

                #963882
                KEVIN$
                Default

                    Kevin, thank you. It’s interesting. I missed to comment on your two last paintings, but I wanted to say that you changed your style a bit and you do much more contrast now, and before, your figure paintings were mostly soft. I think you aim for a different impression now (but I may be wrong in guessing :) ), and I like that.

                    Thanks again for the tips and all the best with the coming art show!

                    I’m still learning how to paint what I like to look at.. I had been disappointed in how flat the initial images looked after drying. They looked real good when wet but looked really flat afterwards. Now I’m trying to add more dark believing they will lighten a tad when dry.

                    ks

                    Kevin Slaby
                    2002 Mustang - 902hp but BROKE at 953hp
                    http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm

                    #963879

                    I did a “Fachwerk” house once, much smaller and simpler than this. The half-timber side was all in shadow. I used cad red, transparent red oxide and ultra blue mix for the trusses. I used ultra blue (dirtied with some colors) and t. white for the spaces between. I was never tempted to try that again;) Gary

                    "Painting is a verb"

                    #963878
                    kentiessen
                    Default

                        The local color of anything is always influenced by what illuminates it, so the color is in context- all colors relate to each other (the same is true for value). Watercolor is often used for architectural sketches because, if done well, it more easily accomplishes this harmony easier.

                        I looked a bit at your work but didn’t see any along that line, so it would be helpful if you posted an example of your architectural efforts so far. My guess is that the struggle for you may not be so much about pinning down a specific color, but making color have good relationships within your work. The complexity of these buildings makes it more important to have those basics right.

                        Ken Tiessen

                        www.KenTiessenArt.com
                        Comments or Critiques welcomed...always!

                        #963886
                        ilya K
                        Default

                            Gary, thank you!

                            Ken, my first attempt already has, I think, four layers of overpainting and it’s best to be hidden. I’ve just started the second. I will try to find strength to post it here later once I get at least something.

                            Good remark about watercolor. I did a couple of those with architecture, and it was easier, although for me it was not color choice – I was merely copying reference photos.

                            Ilya K
                            C&C always welcome

                            #963880
                            ntl
                            Default

                                Kevin, your post 2 is applicable to landscapes, too, of course. I am working on one now and was not sure what to do with a couple of areas. Last Thursday I finally saw my problem–I needed to lighten a couple of areas which I did. Then Sunday I saw your post here. Your explanation and suggestions are well put.

                                #963883
                                KEVIN$
                                Default

                                    Ah, it’s good to know that I’m not too far off my thinking, thanks for letting me know.
                                    When I look at paintings, I almost see a blur of color only noticing light/dark areas and my preference is to see a pleasant contrast. I use this contrast to point my vision to what I feel is important.

                                    For me I use the below mental/visual methods:
                                    1. I will use dark areas to “push” my view into different areas of the painting thus away from an area or feature.
                                    2. I will use lighter areas to “pull” my view into an area away from darker areas.
                                    3. Combination of both.

                                    I don’t know if any of this is how others look at paintings, but this is how I look and admire them.
                                    ks

                                    Kevin Slaby
                                    2002 Mustang - 902hp but BROKE at 953hp
                                    http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm

                                    #963874
                                    WFMartin
                                    Default

                                        But the frame remains my challenge. In reality it is almost always deep brown like burnt umber, or maybe a bit warmer. The contrast to the white infill is high and this is indeed what makes those buildings attractive. But somehow on a painting it does not work at all. Such high contrast and detail over detail demand the rest to be painted in the same way, and this is beyond my ability and actually I want it to look lighter.

                                        I tried different colors instead of burnt umber, reddish like burnt sienna, or deep yellowish, but no, it’s not getting me anywhere.

                                        Regarding technique, I also tried both, first walls then frame, and, just out of despair, the opposite too (but the latter is a killing task obviously).

                                        This may sound redundant, but stop to think…….SOMETHING about this reference photo attracted you to it. The secret to creating this same attraction with your oil painting is to just do your best to reproduce the colors that exist in the reference photo.

                                        This involves a careful matching of the colors of the photo with paint. That doesn’t mean just “winging it”, and estimating the colors–instead, that means a diligent mixing, and comparing your color mixes directly to that of the reference photo.

                                        Do that by mixing paint until you believe you’ve created the correct color, and then actually smearing some of your mixture directly onto the photo for a direct comparison. Mix and compare, time after time, until you have obtained a perfect match of the color. That may be more difficult to do with small areas, but it certainly can be done, by using some isolating techniques, such as covering the surrounding colors so they do not influence your decisions.

                                        There truly is no color that exists on a color photograph that you cannot duplicate with oil paint, and with a minimum of “ingredient colors”.

                                        Once you do match each color of that photo, you may be surprised, because you will discover that the colors you were mixing as “estimates” were not even close to those of the photo.

                                        Of course, once you have established the basic colors, and have applied them, you can always stray a bit to create some interesting sunlit areas or dark, cast shadows, but the basis of your painting needs to be the accurate colors of the photo, first.:)

                                        wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                        https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                        #963887
                                        ilya K
                                        Default

                                            William, I appreciate your detailed reply, thank you! It’s not only color what is my problem. With a photo, I can zoom any patch and take my time to match it. But I want to depart from how does it look exactly, make it lighter. Think about how a beginner would represent a brick wall, taking a ruler and making a grid, versus a good painter who would never attempt to show even a half of the lines and would omit them and vary colors etc. So, I think I already understand how it should NOT be done, but still searching a way how it should.

                                            Yesterday evening I tried to put frame lines, with the brush almost not touching the surface – this is giving a better effect. I will keep you updated, thank you everyone! :)

                                            Ilya K
                                            C&C always welcome

                                            #963875
                                            WFMartin
                                            Default

                                                William, I appreciate your detailed reply, thank you! It’s not only color what is my problem. With a photo, I can zoom any patch and take my time to match it. But I want to depart from how does it look exactly, make it lighter. Think about how a beginner would represent a brick wall, taking a ruler and making a grid, versus a good painter who would never attempt to show even a half of the lines and would omit them and vary colors etc. So, I think I already understand how it should NOT be done, but still searching a way how it should.

                                                Yesterday evening I tried to put frame lines, with the brush almost not touching the surface – this is giving a better effect. I will keep you updated, thank you everyone! :)

                                                Aha,……I think I understand your point. It appears as though you wish to paint this subject in a more painterly (loose) fashion. Certain subjects lend themselves toward a more loose approach, while others do not. For example, it is mighty difficult to reproduce a subject such as a beer car, or a medicine bottle that have various fonts of type, and logos printed on them, in a loose fashion. Of course, the reason is that the type is the primary source of interest. I believe that such is the case with a “Tudor” type house such as this. The primary interest revolves around the intricate pattern of the wood trim.

                                                It is rather difficult to represent this wooden trim in any way other than to render it rather accurately.

                                                That being said, I would tend toward keeping the wood trim in a more off-neutral color, rather than creating a bright, reddish, or orangey-brown. It may tend toward being a bit garish with a brighter color.

                                                Wish I could be of more help.:o

                                                wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                                                https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                                                #963884
                                                KEVIN$
                                                Default

                                                    Maybe as an experiment try painting it using a pallet knife/spatula..
                                                    ks

                                                    Kevin Slaby
                                                    2002 Mustang - 902hp but BROKE at 953hp
                                                    http://baselinesuspensions.com/Projects/balrog.htm

                                                    #963888
                                                    ilya K
                                                    Default

                                                        Kevin, I use a knife to do the entire wall first. Other than that, I’m not that skilled with it.

                                                        William, yes! All correct! Today after a good portion of swearing, I read your comment. Then was staring into a dark window thinking about that. Right, it’s the structure that makes the buildings attractive. In addition, I am not really able to paint loose, even things like still lifes, hope I will learn one day.

                                                        But I posted only a part of the photo above, to help to explain. So maybe in a scene that includes more of the environment, trees, people, there may still be a way to simplify. I’ve recalled Monet’s St. Lazare station paintings, or Rouen cathedral. Those are really complex structures, and good for photos. (Why, why he never went to Alsace or Germany? :rolleyes: ) I will keep thinking and trying.

                                                        Ilya K
                                                        C&C always welcome

                                                        #963876
                                                        Don Ketchek
                                                        Default

                                                            I have no idea if this is the issue, but I doubt that the issue is with the dark browns. They are mainly dark – and the color is likely not that important. The difficulty with this ref – as I see it – is that almost the entire building is in shadow. This effects the “whites” the most. In actuality, since they are in shadow, they are not even close to white. I put your photo into photoshop and used the eyedropper tool to find the color of three of the “white” areas.

                                                            Getting the white areas in shadow to read correctly will be the challenge, in my opinion, and will be the most important factor in getting the value difference between the dark browns and the whites to look correct without too much contrast.

                                                            Don

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