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Old 05-22-2019, 02:51 PM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87



Next painting is to be Phantom coming in to be loaded up with missiles. Been faffing around moving things about. I have not got a clue yet what is going to be in the background. Probably hangars or QRA Sheds...maybe runwayou. The main goal of this exercise is to try and make the groundcrew realistic . See what happens.
Ta John
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Old 05-22-2019, 05:20 PM
NeilF92 NeilF92 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

Only one of the guys will have his arms raised like that - otherwise the Air Gods get confused as to who's doing what
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Old 05-22-2019, 06:03 PM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

True Neil. I have just put those figures in willy nilly until I decide what I'm really doing with this.
Ta John
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Old 05-22-2019, 07:32 PM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87


Going for a hangar in the background. ..but this could change..
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Old 05-23-2019, 04:44 AM
Chas McHugh Chas McHugh is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

With regards to perspective; they are some elements of your composition that are made for you - one being the horizon line and its associated vanishing point.

If I am allowed to assume that the bomb trolley is on level ground; and that both its wheels are the same circumference: Then a line out to infinity that touches the base of both wheels, and a similar line that touches the tops of both wheels, will eventually merge together. This is your horizon line (& vanishing point for the trolley).


Carry that nominal horizon line across the canvas, and there will be a tangent that merges with the under-belly of the Phantom fuselage. If you look at your reference photograph for the Phantom, hopefully it will include the actual horizon for that particular image.


It does not matter how well you paint the composition - if the rules of perspective are not obeyed, it will always look odd even to an inexperienced art critic.

I would use string to confirm this information as the vanishing point of the trolley is off canvas. You can have multiple vanishing points for the different elements of the composition - but all will (or should) share the same horizon - even if only a nominal horizon. It maybe that you need a different Phantom reference photograph with one that has the correct horizon - that is for you to assess. For sure when the preparation for a painting is accurate - you stand ready to achieve an awesome painting.


Hope that helps. Another good top-tip is that whatever part of the human body touches the horizon (*usually the eyes) - keep that as a constant for all standing persons. *The reason that it is usually the eyes is due to reference photographs being taken by photographers standing up. (Notwithstanding that you do get both tall and short people)
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Old 05-23-2019, 07:28 AM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

Thanks very much Chas for your time and in trying to explain the rules of perspective to an old ex RAF Armourer. Remember we were always known to be a bit thick!
I realise now that I have rushed into this without giving much thought for the perspective issue. Going to spend some time now reassessing the sketch.
Again..... ta for trying to put me on the rails so to speak.
Thanks John
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:58 PM
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Gray539 Gray539 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

John, have you thought about setting up the compositions in 3D. Once you import the components you can change the composition and view point easily. It allows you find the composition you like before setting pencil to paper. The software is Sketchup, which is free and all the models are free from Sketchup.
You don't have to learn 3D, you just import and move the components around. I put this one together to show you, took about half hour to set up. Now you can move your view point and components in seconds. Just a thought.
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Old 05-23-2019, 06:27 PM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

That's a good thought Gray.....and that's what I shall be doing. I have used sketchup before but not as you have demonstrated.
Thanks very much for taking the time to put that layout together Gray.
I spent a lot of time today looking at the issues of perspective and realise that my sketch was mostly a "cockup". So its thanks to you both for pointing me in the correct direction .
Ta again John
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:16 AM
Chas McHugh Chas McHugh is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87



Here is a photograph of myself using string from a vanishing point off canvas to confirm perspective. With a fixed vanishing point, I can move the string around all elements of the composition to make sure they ‘tow the line’ (pardon the pun!)
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Old 05-26-2019, 05:36 AM
johnredpath1953 johnredpath1953 is offline
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Re: Phantom OTRS Leuchars 87

Never mind the vanishing point....I really like that painting .

Yes I can see what you mean now Chas. Your photo shows it all.

Thanks for all your time Chas for pointing out the rules of perspective.
Ta john
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