Home Forums Explore Subjects Plein Air Step away from that Gesso!

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  • #989129
    ZanBarrage
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        For anyone who paints in oil and still uses Gesso as their ground, you have no idea what you are missing. I didn’t until last week frankly. After much research and consultation I finally tried the Zinsser Cover Stain OIL BASED primer sealer. This is not the BIN primer sealer. It is oil – not shellack based. It covers very well and dries in about 2 hrs.

        When I was using Gesso, my paints sunk as they dried. They lost the luster and the colours were off and dusty. I would compensate by varnishing, but that brought them back only half way to what they were supposed to be. The oil based sealer primer changed ALL that honestly you just have to try it that is all I can say. You can buy a small can for $8-$15 depending on where you live. It is well worth it believe me.

        I know there are some who have concocted formulas with gesso adding stuff and making it a bit better, but this is a whole different level. Mind you I did gesso the panels a while back and these were the same panels I added the oil based primer sealer to but the gesso will only help in preservation now without sucking the life out of my work.

        Try it. You will thank me.

        #1150950
        Wyn Easton
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            I’ve thought about using “Kilz” instead of gesso. I think it would work as well as what you have here. It is oil based and even comes in a spray can. Any thoughts?

            A fine painting is a fragile gift sporadically given when you least expect it. - Charles Sovek
            My Blog :) My Web Site
            C&C always welcome
            Wyn

            #1150956
            ZanBarrage
            Default

                Hi Wayn,

                I am not sure about the composition of Kilz and I have not used it so I can’t comment on its value, but I would suggest that if it is a sealer/primer and is oil based, it should work. Try it! What have you got to lose except a few bucks? The benefits – if it performs like the Zinsser Cover Stain are enormous and well worth the experiment.

                I will never go back to Gesso again.

                #1150973
                Anonymous

                    When I was using Gesso, my paints sunk as they dried. They lost the luster and the colours were off and dusty.

                    I precondition an absorbent gesso surface with a oil paint toned layer and then apply medium with a rag, then paint. All it is is the gesso sucking up some oil from the intitial application. You can get Kilz original primer in oil or in a new acrylic base now. The oil base is not healthy to breath, I have used it plenty for house painting purposes for which it was designed. I mean it is wicked and off the hook harsh, I would not use that. They put some nasty penetrating solvents in that because it is designed to seal off nasty, rusty, moldy, even grease stained walls.

                    #1150970
                    E.Milz
                    Default

                        For anyone who paints in oil and still uses Gesso as their ground, you have no idea what you are missing. I didn’t until last week frankly. After much research and consultation I finally tried the Zinsser Cover Stain OIL BASED primer sealer. This is not the BIN primer sealer. It is oil – not shellack based. It covers very well and dries in about 2 hrs.

                        When I was using Gesso, my paints sunk as they dried. They lost the luster and the colours were off and dusty. I would compensate by varnishing, but that brought them back only half way to what they were supposed to be. The oil based sealer primer changed ALL that honestly you just have to try it that is all I can say. You can buy a small can for $8-$15 depending on where you live. It is well worth it believe me.

                        [IMG]http://s3.amazonaws.com/wetcanvas-hdc/Community/images/11-Jul-2011/86381-6d694361-8067-4a88-a229-8be804fc2f0a_300.jpg[/IMG]

                        I know there are some who have concocted formulas with gesso adding stuff and making it a bit better, but this is a whole different level. Mind you I did gesso the panels a while back and these were the same panels I added the oil based primer sealer to but the gesso will only help in preservation now without sucking the life out of my work.

                        Try it. You will thank me.

                        Whow, I would love to try it out and thank you big time as I hate to paint on gesso. But do you know if there is a way for me in europe to get my hands on it?

                        cheers
                        E.Milz

                        "C&C welcome", my blog: http://milzart.blogspot.com/ To paint a picture with some life in it, one has to be alive onesel[/COLOR]f! (Vincent)


                        #1150957
                        ZanBarrage
                        Default

                            Sid,

                            I tried that and it is better than Gesso of course because you are building a layer between it and your paint, but it does not compare to what I am suggesting honestly. And for the record, you should never use any of these products in an enclosed area of course. Ventelation is very important. I think that is a given.

                            E,
                            I can’t suggest an equivalent ion Europe, but you can look at the specifications (Google the product) and get something comparable I am sure you have that in Europe given that most of your houses are older and would have oil paint on them/in them. :)

                            Wyn,
                            I just checked Kilz out and yes it should do the same thing if you use the oil based one.

                            #1150955
                            boomerbeach
                            Default

                                Yep! Been usin’ that Zinnser primer these past 2-3yrs and a half-gal will last a long while, also, easily mixed with various tints to make for differing under-paint
                                shade/values. I must credit an outstanding painter friend, Stephen Mirich, of the Portuguese Bend Art Colony for his recommendation of same. He’s been using Zinnser for many years. :thumbsup:

                                boomerbeach in SoCal:wave:

                                #1150947

                                I was about to run out to Home ____, a chain store here that stocks this stuff. Then I saw a comment on the DTYChatRoom website in which an experienced person complained that this product goes on poorly; in such a way that heavy brush marks result. Can any of you comment on this?
                                Have fun, Dave

                                #1150958
                                ZanBarrage
                                Default

                                    If you like to have a bit of texture you can brush it on and yes it will give you a nice textured effect (bad for walls great for panels.) If you prefer a smooth surface, I would suggest that you use a roller.

                                    See my works in my previous post here:
                                    https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=940153
                                    You can see the texture that I intentionally created with the ground on the second and third artworks.

                                    PS: What is the DTY chatroom??:confused:

                                    #1150954
                                    Sarah Judson
                                    Default

                                        I would wonder how archival it is. It might last a hundred years, but…?

                                        Sarah Judson
                                        "We must either find ways of living that encourage awareness or face a loss of sensibility that is likely to seep into all areas of our lives." -Jane Herold (wood-fired pottery)

                                        #1150959
                                        ZanBarrage
                                        Default

                                            It is an outdoor primer/sealer Sarah. Once it is dry, it seals everything in the panel away from the paints and as a primer it is meant to hold on to the paint nicely. I don’t know what more we can ask for. I am not sure what you are saying though.

                                            #1150971
                                            E.Milz
                                            Default

                                                Sid,

                                                I tried that and it is better than Gesso of course because you are building a layer between it and your paint, but it does not compare to what I am suggesting honestly. And for the record, you should never use any of these products in an enclosed area of course. Ventelation is very important. I think that is a given.

                                                E,
                                                I can’t suggest an equivalent ion Europe, but you can look at the specifications (Google the product) and get something comparable I am sure you have that in Europe given that most of your houses are older and would have oil paint on them/in them. :)

                                                Wyn,
                                                I just checked Kilz out and yes it should do the same thing if you use the oil based one.

                                                I will check it out, thanks for the pointer mate. Sometimes one needs a kick in the butt for a change. I too hate the drying out of the paint with the use of gesso but didnt do anything about it.

                                                cheers
                                                E.Milz

                                                "C&C welcome", my blog: http://milzart.blogspot.com/ To paint a picture with some life in it, one has to be alive onesel[/COLOR]f! (Vincent)


                                                #1150951
                                                Ian Bruce
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                                                    I am sure that Zinsser oil primer will work just fine. My only caveat is that fast drying oil-based house primers use large quantities of cheap dryer in the formulation. This tends to cause the paint to become yellowed or brownish over time (a few months). So make sure that you don’t leave any of the primer uncovered. Of course, If you tone the support with a strong color, yellowing is not a problem–even if some of the toning shows through.

                                                    [FONT=Book Antiqua]Ian , the [FONT=Arial]hopeful aspirer.

                                                    Any C&C I may make is based on the theory that even the act of disagreeing with one of my lousy suggestions may still spark an inspired idea.

                                                    #1150960
                                                    ZanBarrage
                                                    Default

                                                        E,

                                                        The product is sold in the UK so I think you should find it in the EU as well.

                                                        #1150961
                                                        ZanBarrage
                                                        Default

                                                            Ian,

                                                            I will test a strip and leave it outdoors and see what happens.

                                                            PS: OK I just painted a strip of plywood. Once it dries I will cover half and place it in the full sun. We should have an idea if it starts yellowing in a few weeks.

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