Home Forums Explore Media Oil Painting Artists’ vs Hardware

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  • #987171
    Anonymous

        A frequently asked question by both new and experienced artists is:
        Can I use cheaper solvents and oils from the local hardware store or should I use only expensive artists’ brands, and if not, then what is the difference?
        Opinions differ widely and that is the question I would like to begin to examine with a sampling of media that I found available at my respective sources of supply. I intend to test and compare them in various ways and then report my findings. Since I am limited in scope others may feel motivated to do additional tests, or on other brands, etc. that can only add to the findings. I don’t expect all aspects of this to be definitively answered but it could give some valuable information. Some tests like exposure to sunlight may take a long time so that is why I am posting now rather than just later on. Here are pics of what I had already plus what I obtained to use in this study. Thanks in advance for your interest. Sid


        #1101816
        Don Ketchek
        Default

            Good luck with your efforts, but if you value your artwork then spend the extra money and get artist quality materials. If the various additives and other ingredients that are in “hardware store” materials ruin your artwork 10 years down the road, what good will your research have done?

            Based on most recommendations, artists are urged to use the best materials that they can afford. If you spend money on artist quality paint, good brushes, quality canvas, boards, grounds, etc. why would you risk it all by saving a few dollars by using hardware store turpentine?

            Don

            #1101813
            Sir Paul
            Default

                With the exception of ‘amber mediums’ and perhaps certain large bottles of cold-pressed linseed… I really couldn’t imagine anyone being concerned over mediums. 6-12 dollars on average.. expensive? Really?

                Considering their proper use would make a little go a fairly long way.. I can’t imagine it. The small brushes I buy (even on sale) tend to cost more than those!

                Heck.. GAS these days costs a HELL of a lot more than those! ;)

                There is far worse things in materials then quality artist mediums… Large (fine) brushes, series 4-6 series pro-paint (esp. if you buy a couple of em’) and certainly linen rolls/canvases in bulk. But mediums?…. come on!

                If ‘experienced’ artists were REALLY asking something like that? – My response would be: “Give up painting the side of your rain-soaked cardboard shack… and find a better job.”

                I’m not kidding.

                [FONT=Arial]

                #1101822
                Anonymous

                    By the way, I should have mentioned, cleaning brushes is not a consideration here, this is only related to medium usage.
                    Thanks Don, let me give you and others a link: http://www.paintmaking.com/solvents.htm
                    Now here you will find an extensive site on how to make your own paint. If you read the section on gum turpentine you will find this advice, “there is no difference between hardware and artists’ grade gum turpentine except hardware store is probably fresher”. As you say, most don’t recommend it. The thing is that this question comes up again and again with conflicting advice given. If I only read that site I referenced then I would be using the cheap stuff. My goal is to provide some real qualitative and quantitative data.
                    At this point, I don’t want to initiate a lot of debate, opinions, etc. That would be better left for later on after I and maybe others have compiled some material to look at.
                    I do enjoy research and this is not going to be a major project, just a little spare time thing. Hopefully you and others will enjoy it with interest.

                    #1101851
                    keenart
                    Default

                        Unless you have a lab and are willing to spend the next several years testing these elements under laboratory conditions as the manufacturers do in relation to use as archival mediums for works of art, I would consider your information no better than hearsay.

                        Jan

                        #1101795
                        WFMartin
                        Default

                            Those artists who have an attraction to hardware store materials for oil painting should probably just have a go at it. After a few simple recommendations in terms of friendly advice, it then serves to become nothing more than a source for an argument.

                            (A good “start” might be to buy some “Boiled Linseed Oil” from a hardware store paint department. It is relatively cheap.)

                            I say, have at it!:D :D

                            Bill

                            wfmartin. My Blog "Creative Realism"...
                            https://williamfmartin.blogspot.com

                            #1101823
                            Anonymous

                                Thanks keenart, I should have mentioned that also. I do have access to a lab and analytical instrumentation. For example, I should be able to give you a comparitive fatty acid profile on the two linseed oils.
                                The response so far is indicative and typical of the passion that this topic arouses from both sides of the fence. That, coupled with the fact that the question is as perennial as the grass makes it a worthwhile endeavor.
                                Before you condemn it, I would ask rather that you embrace the spirit of it to at least attempt to contribute something. This question will be asked again and again for many years to come, I would like to help provide a bit of substance to the answer. Sid

                                #1101824
                                Anonymous

                                    There you go Bill!

                                    #1101805
                                    Smokin
                                    Default

                                        If you read the section on gum turpentine you will find this advice, “there is no difference between hardware and artists’ grade gum turpentine except hardware store is probably fresher”. As you say, most don’t recommend it. The thing is that this question comes up again and again with conflicting advice given. If I only read that site I referenced then I would be using the cheap stuff. My goal is to provide some real qualitative and quantitative data.

                                        Looking forward to the results :thumbsup: .

                                        C&C always welcomed. Frank
                                        www.MyDigitalWorkshop.com

                                        #1101825
                                        Anonymous

                                            Well, first preliminary results are in and things are not looking good for hardware brands. In fact, you might say that artists’ brands are “cleaning their clock”. I really wanted more of a challenge and this may not take nearly as long as I hoped it would.
                                            First I gave them all a visual exam. The hardware brands were all in cans so I poured them in glass containers to be able to see them. Lets start with the linseed oils, I put them in each in very clean empty salsa jars and here is what they looked like. On the left is Utrecht artists’ brand and on the right is Crown 100% pure oil hardware brand:

                                            At this point I am already rethinking whether I want to devote any more time examining the oils any further. I was going to do some specific gravity tests, spectrophotometer scans, and gas chromatography and get some fatty acid profiles. Based on my experience, I decided that this is not necessary. Now Van Gogh may have liked yellow but I don’t want all my paintings to be jaundiced. I don’t even want to use this to clean my brushes with and then have to get it out of them. Bye bye bye Crown, you are done.
                                            Next up is the gum turpentine.
                                            Well the turp in the Winsor Newton bottle is very clear. When I went to open the Sunnyside can I was greeted by a smell that I find difficult to decribe. Rotgut, lousy, offensive, and intolerable apply here. And this is even before I removed the plastic seal:

                                            Once again, I am rethinking things with the turps because I cannot bring myself to opening that can. It may be clear or it may be yellow but I refuse to find out myself. Let someone else do it, it’s your funeral. Seriously, I even have a fume exhaust hood at work but I can’t take it in because of safety issues that could jeapordize my clean record. Van Gogh would have cut off his nose instead of his ear if this was what he had to work with. Smell was going to examined next. So the Sunnyside pure gum spirits of turpentine takes an early exit and that leaves the odorless mineral spirits.
                                            Both the sansador and the sunnyside OMS are clear so I don’t need to show that.
                                            Smell was next up for the test and you know that my hardware turp is not good. However, Winsor Newton turp is not too bad. I can hold it right up to my nose and I can say that I even like it a little.
                                            Sansador has a faint solvent smell and Sunnyside OMS has a more noticable stronger solvent smell. I would rate my smelling sensitivity as average with a normal lower detection limit. So only OMS has survived the first two rounds of testing, I plan on some more but give me a little time now.
                                            That is it for now, I know some may have issues with my sampling limitations or whatever but let me just say this, these are the products that I have access to in my immediate area. They are the ones I would select from if someone advised me that I could use one or the other type. Regards, Sid

                                            #1101798
                                            soap
                                            Default

                                                Thanks for this Sidbledsoe! I did ask the question and no doubt many other beginning oil painters will too (or am I that dumb). I used hardware store white spirit and although it might not ruin my paintings I have now ordered some Sansodor instead. I do (want to) sell my paintings so I better learn!

                                                #1101793

                                                Sid, before you made the post above I was going to say something along the lines of how obvious the differences would be once you started your tests, especially with turpentine odor, but experience is a better teacher.

                                                That said, it might be worthwhile to gather information from various companies that sell these products as artist grade to see what guidelines they use so you have a better idea of what you’d be looking for, assuming you get any responses. It may already be publically available.

                                                There’s a large amount of blind faith involved, since lables and such are not always that descriptive if there at all, and there aren’t any real monitoring agencies that supervise these products, so we’re left to our own devices. These companies do have to compete with each other, however, and comparisons between brands of artist grade materials is always helpful. Your spirit of personal testing and sharing is appreciated.

                                                David Blaine Clemons
                                                ----------------
                                                My Website
                                                My Blog

                                                #1101826
                                                Anonymous

                                                    Thank you soap. You are not alone by a long shot. It is a FAQ on the websites of all these manufacturers. Many people, including myself, have and will continue to ask this question and deserve a good level headed answer so good luck with your efforts, I have sold three paintings in my life and that was a while back before my long hiatus. Sid

                                                    #1101814
                                                    Sir Paul
                                                    Default

                                                        And THAT is the other reason I thought that sort of thing ludicrous.. considering the quality of most of that hardware stuff (which is not made with ‘archival painting’ in mind..) ..You may as well be painting with ‘Cool-Whip’.
                                                        Actually the cool-whip.. as well as a whole host of other wacky things.. May work very well at first. But not some years down the road.. ;O)

                                                        At least a 7-8oz cotton canvas (which I find almost as worthless as hardware mediums) can be re-lined. But if your paint ITSELF rots? – You’re screwed. There’s no sense in ‘cutting’ on either the PAINT or the MEDIUM in my opinion. Do one of those.. and it may be better not even to spend the time starting..

                                                        In fairness though.. It was fascinating seeing the actual physical picture of what I’d suspected all along. It probably will help some people out there.

                                                        [FONT=Arial]

                                                        #1101803
                                                        gunzorro
                                                        Default

                                                            I do have some questions.

                                                            On the oil comparison: I’m sorry to see it limited to only one hardware brand, and that one doesn’t seem to be a direct comparison. The dark hardware version looks as though it has been cooked, or had siccatives added. I’d like to know more about it.

                                                            Same goes with the turps comparison — I’d like to see a wider range of brands readily available throughout the USA. Another point — color is not a gauge of turps quality — some of the best is tinted brown or golden.

                                                            The unfavorable comparison may hold up on a wider survey, but I caution anyone from drawing conclusions except for the specific examples shown here.

                                                            Looking forward to more results.

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