Home Forums The Learning Center Color Theory and Mixing Has anybody tried Golden’s Cerulean Blue Deep?

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  • #992263
    Bastet469
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        Hi all,

        My local art store is running a sale on Golden Fluid Acrylics. They only stock one of the two Ceruleans available; Cerulean Blue Deep (PB 36). It seems darker & greener than Golden’s standard Cerulean Blue Chromium (PB36:1) I normally buy. When I go to a deeply discounted sale, I typically buy at least one experimental color. I’m trying to decide if Cerulean Blue Deep should be one.

        So I was wondering if anyone has tried using it in place of their regular Cerulean and what were the results? Is the difference in color that significant? Let me know. Thanks 😊

        -Wendy


        [FONT=Palatino Linotype]"I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day."
        -Jean-Michel Basquiat [FONT=Palatino Linotype]
        Boy and Dog in a Johnnypump

        #1211654
        Mythrill
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            Hi all,

            My local art store is running a sale on Golden Fluid Acrylics. They only stock one of the two Ceruleans available; Cerulean Blue Deep (PB 36). It seems darker & greener than Golden’s standard Cerulean Blue Chromium (PB36:1) I normally buy. When I go to a deeply discounted sale, I typically buy at least one experimental color. I’m trying to decide if Cerulean Blue Deep should be one.

            So I was wondering if anyone has tried using it in place of their regular Cerulean and what were the results? Is the difference in color that significant? Let me know. Thanks 😊

            -Wendy

            Hi, Wendy!

            Golden only has Ceruleum Blue Chromium (PB 36), which is already a bit greener and more intense than traditional Ceruleum Blue (PB 35).

            I suppose the “deep” shade was made to be similar to Cobalt Blue (PB 28), but slightly less intense.

            It should be a nice color to have, if you want to experiment!

            #1211646
            Patrick1
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                I don’t know if they still make it…this sample is from a Golden Heavy Body chart that is about 13 years old.

                The number in the box is the transparency (1 is most opaque…8 is most transparent) and the other number is the price series (1 being cheapest, 9 being most expensive). You can see the ‘Deep’ is darker, greener, and perhaps a bit less chromatic than the regular Cerulean.

                #1211655
                Mythrill
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                    I don’t know if they still make it…this sample is from a Golden Heavy Body chart that is about 13 years old.

                    The number in the box is the transparency (1 is most opaque…8 is most transparent) and the other number is the price series (1 being cheapest, 9 being most expensive). You can see the ‘Deep’ is darker, greener, and perhaps a bit less chromatic than the regular Cerulean.

                    Hi, Patrick!

                    This color seems different from what Golden sells now. Here’s the dickblick swatch for their “Cerulean Blue Deep” (link: http://www.dickblick.com/items/00620-5163/#colorswatch), and here is the swatch:

                    The “Ceruleum Blue Deep” you have there is similar to their current “Cobalt Turquoise” (link: http://www.dickblick.com/items/00620-5373/#colorswatch). Both their colors are made from PB36:

                    #1211668
                    shadoj
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                        I have the Golden Cerulean Blue Deep PB36 along with Liquitex Cobalt Turquoise PB36; both are heavy body. The swatches I scanned in appear very close to the true hues.

                        I have Golden’s QoR Cerulean Blue Chromium (PB36:1) in watercolors; it is bluer than my Golden Cerulean Blue Deep PB36 in acrylics. I also have a Liquitex Cerulean Blue Hue acrylics tube, which is a pigment mix — and also bluer than the Golden Cerulean Blue Deep PB36.

                        PB36 Cerulean Blue Deep is a lovely color in its own right, but I’d find a standard cerulean or chromium cerulean more useful if working with a limited / primary triad palette.

                        Jen

                        #1211647
                        Patrick1
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                            Hi Mythrill,
                            That Dick Blick ‘Ceulean Blue Deep’ swatch looks like ‘regular’ Cerulean! (which Golden calls Cerulean Blue Chromium). Thanks Jen for the samples.

                            #1211663
                            opainter
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                                I was considering getting either Golden’s Cerulean Blue Chromium or Golden’s Cerulean Blue Deep, but I chose to get the C.B. Chromium because the difference between the two seemed to be minimal, and it appeared to me that I could get the same color as C.B. Deep by mixing a very small amount of Cadmium Yellow Light (PY35) (which is my primary yellow) with C.B. Chromium. I don’t see how you can go in the opposite direction (from C.B. Deep to color of C.B. Chromium), so if you get the C.B. Chromium, you will have a (slightly) larger possible mixing range.

                                AJ (opainter), C&C always welcome
                                :::: Helpful links for new users: User Agreement || Reference Images || C&C Suggestions || Color Theory and Mixing (color theory and color selection) || Full List of Forums
                                :::: Painting Blog with an article now and then

                                #1211648
                                Patrick1
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                                    Here are all 7 Cobalt colors from my old Heavy Body chart all in one place for comparison. On my monitor, the Dick Blick samples look too blueish, bright, and chromatic…which I think is the cause of the ambiguity. As always, there is no substitute for seeing a real paint sample in front of you, under natural daylight.

                                    AJ, I suspect you’re right that you could mimic the ‘Deep’ version by mixing ‘Chomium’ + Cadmium Yellow, but it would be much harder or impossible to mimic the Chromium by mixing something into the Deep.

                                    #1211656
                                    Mythrill
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                                        Here are all 7 Cobalt colors from my old Heavy Body chart all in one place for comparison. On my monitor, the Dick Blick samples look too blueish, bright, and chromatic…which I think is the cause of the ambiguity. As always, there is no substitute for seeing a real paint sample in front of you, under natural daylight.

                                        That is true, Patrick. Sorry for the confusion here.

                                        #1211664
                                        opainter
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                                            Golden replaced Cobalt Titanate Green with Titan Green Pale because they ran out of pigment for Cobalt Titanate Green. Titan Green Pale is now available only in their OPEN Acrylics line. It’s a shame, really, because Cobalt Titanate Green is a unique color.

                                            AJ (opainter), C&C always welcome
                                            :::: Helpful links for new users: User Agreement || Reference Images || C&C Suggestions || Color Theory and Mixing (color theory and color selection) || Full List of Forums
                                            :::: Painting Blog with an article now and then

                                            #1211649
                                            Patrick1
                                            Default

                                                Mythrill, no probs. I suppose it’s possible that the Blick samples might look more accurate on some displays…and mine less so. On my monitor, my samples look accurate in terms of hue, but a bit greyer than real life. But I chose to post them without any Photoshop color modification…because if I tweak the colors to look more ‘just right’ on my display, it might make it more ‘off’ on other people’s displays.

                                                AJ, it’s too bad the Cobalt Titanate Green is no longer available. I don’t use Open, so the Titan Green Pale replacement is not an option for me. I was thinking about getting the Cobalt Titanate Green…as it wasn’t as expensive as the other cobalt colors, and I like the light, somewhat pastel look…my colors usually end up too dark and heavy so this would be a useful color to have. But if they do eventually offer the Titan Green Pale in their Heavy Body acrylics I will give it a try.

                                                #1211661
                                                Gigalot
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                                                    Mythrill, no probs. I suppose it’s possible that the Blick samples might look more accurate on some displays…and mine less so. On my monitor, my samples look accurate in terms of hue, but a bit greyer than real life. But I chose to post them without any Photoshop color modification…because if I tweak the colors to look more ‘just right’ on my display, it might make it more ‘off’ on other people’s displays.

                                                    AJ, it’s too bad the Cobalt Titanate Green is no longer available. I don’t use Open, so the Titan Green Pale replacement is not an option for me. I was thinking about getting the Cobalt Titanate Green…as it wasn’t as expensive as the other cobalt colors, and I like the light, somewhat pastel look…my colors usually end up too dark and heavy so this would be a useful color to have. But if they do eventually offer the Titan Green Pale in their Heavy Body acrylics I will give it a try.

                                                    Pigment manufacturer discontinued Cobalt Titanate PG50 production. Therefore, Golden replaced it with actual pigments. It is sad to hear that PG50 now is not available for artistic use.
                                                    PY153, bright tranasparent indian yellow color, nickel dioxine yellow pigment is also discontinued.
                                                    “In 2012 the popular pigment PY153 Nickel Dioxine Yellow was discontinued, no doubt because of lack of demand from the chemical and/or auto industries. As has been pointed out previously makers of watercolour or other types of paint are very much at the bottom of the pile and have to take whatever is available. Although not offered by a huge number of paint makers PY153 was the pigment used by both Winsor & Newton and Daniel Smith for the popular New Gamboge paints. Both have already reformulated with a multi pigment mix. In addition Rowney and one or two others called it `Indian Yellow, supposedly a replacement for the notorious original Indian Yellow. Why notorious? It has been said, and repeated many time, that this paint was made in a vile process by feeding cows in India with certain types of leaves, that turned their urine yellow, and this was the foundation of the paint. Although this story has been repeated many times I, in my capacity as a (very) amateur historian, researched the story and discovered that it might all be nonsense with no real basis in fact. “

                                                    #1211657
                                                    Mythrill
                                                    Default

                                                        Pigment manufacturer discontinued Cobalt Titanate PG50 production. Therefore, Golden replaced it with actual pigments. It is sad to hear that PG50 now is not available for artistic use.
                                                        PY153, bright tranasparent indian yellow color, nickel dioxine yellow pigment is also discontinued.

                                                        Hi, Giga!

                                                        I’d like to point out that the teal shade (blue-green) of PG 50, usually called “Cobalt Teal Blue” or “Cobalt Turquoise”, is still widely available. Some paint suppliers stopped selling it because it’s much harder to stabilize than traditional pigments – notably more so in acrylics. Cobalt are natural driers, and the last thing you want to see dry in a tube.

                                                        Here it is at “Sinopia pigments”. It costs $90.00 for 500g. It’s sold as “Cobalt Aquamarine”:
                                                        http://www.sinopia.com/SCKB211-Cobalt-Aquamarine_p_206.

                                                        “Cobalt Green” is also still sold. It’s not as light as the shade that Golden offered, but still a good option.

                                                        http://www.sinopia.com/SCSG223-Cobalt-Green_p_60.html

                                                        You can also buy smaller quantities of those pigments. If you want to make a paint tube just for yourself, 100g probably be just fine.

                                                        Just make sure to wear facial protection, as the dust of cobalt pigments can be very poisonous and toxic.

                                                        #1211665
                                                        Bastet469
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                                                            As a woman I’m hate to admit this but…

                                                            I noticed that Patrick’s PG50 swatch for Cobalt Teal also listed the color’s French name Bleu Lagon. Am I the only one who immediately pictured a topless Brooke Sheilds on the beach? :lol: It’s sexist right?

                                                            In my defense, I was only about 8 yrs old when the movie Blue Lagoon came out. My friend’s mother had us tag along with her older sister on a date. Defacto chaperones, lol. Christie’s sister and her boyfriend offered to take us in to see B. Lagoon instead of the kid’s movie her mom thought we were seeing. We just had to agree not to sit with them and not make any trouble. It was the first time I’d ever seen breasts, not even my own Moms’!! I knew ahead of time the scene was coming, but I was still stunned. Christie had already seen her sisters’ so she wasn’t phased.

                                                            Anyway, what were we talking about? :angel:


                                                            [FONT=Palatino Linotype]"I like kids' work more than work by real artists any day."
                                                            -Jean-Michel Basquiat [FONT=Palatino Linotype]
                                                            Boy and Dog in a Johnnypump

                                                            #1211650
                                                            Patrick1
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                                                                I must admit to lusting to try Bleu Lagon (Cobalt Teal) …but not for that reason :angel: .

                                                                Anyone that has tried it in acrylics: does it dry out fast in the tube because of the cobalt content? Good quality, heavy body acrylics dry out on me after about 2 years in the tube. Also, I’m wondering if I could match its bright aqua color with Phthalo Turquoise (single pigment or a mix) + Titanium White.

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