WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Town Center > Café Guerbois
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:55 AM
brianvds's Avatar
brianvds brianvds is offline
A Local Legend
Pretoria
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,456
 
Hails from South Africa
Use to denote nudity/mature subject matter What are you listening to?

This is a companion thread to StLukesGuild's thread "What are you looking at?" here:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725251

Except this one is for music. What are your latest discoveries, or old favourites revisited? As with StLuke's thread, let us not get too much into debates about the merits of various pieces and styles, but simply enjoy sharing them. And if they are legally available on the web, by all means include links.

I was in my teens when I first listened to Tchaikovsky's second symphony, also known as "The Little Russian." It is not nearly as famous as some of the later ones, but I loved it. It was on vinyl, however, so eventually I moved on to other things, until the other day when I suddenly remembered my infatuation with it. And lo and behold, many recordings are now available on YouTube, so I enjoyed a trip down memory lane, of the sort only music can provide.
__________________
__________________________
https://brianvds1.wixsite.com/home
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 01:30 AM
cjorgensen's Avatar
cjorgensen cjorgensen is online now
Immortalized
Ventura, California
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,614
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

Someone told me about Pandora.com. I am not into pop music at all, but I checked it out. You can create your own "custom" radio stations.

I have a Fats Waller station on Pandora that I love. Every tune is a happy, upbeat piano song. All the songs are hits from days gone by, but I have never heard them before, so they are all fresh and enjoyable. I love listening to him when I am cleaning the house, because he gets me dancing around and the job gets done faster.
__________________
C&C always welcome.

http://www.carolynspaintblog.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:34 AM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

I tend to listen to classical more than anything else... although I do branch off into the blues, bluegrass, rock, folk, and especially jazz from time to time. The latest "discovery" for me was the songs of the contemporary Russian composer, Valentin Silvestrov. I've heard his choral works before... which I found quite lovely... but I was not prepared for how much I was impressed by this disc:



An absolutely electrifying recording! The music is exquisitely beautiful... simple... and I feel as if I had known it all my life... like the first time I played Beethoven's "Moonlight" or "Pathetique" sonata or Chopin's Nocturnes. This sense of timelessness and having known the work forever is probably even more likely to strike the Russian-speaking listener, for the texts Silvestrov sets are among the most beloved of Russian poems (including works by Lermontov, Pushkin, Mandelstam... but also Keats and Shelley).

The Silent Songs were composed after Silvestrov was expelled from the Soviet Composer's Union in 1974. His public career as a composer was effectively at an end, and thus he turned to the intimate, "private" genre of the lied or art song. What in the hands of some composers had once been the favored parlour music, becomes in Silvestrov's hands a kind of commentary on enforced privacy and inwardness/introspection in the political environment of the Soviet Union. The music achieves a similar nocturnal impact as the aforementioned works of Beethoven and Chopin... an unimagined depth of feeling within the most reserved and quiet of music. The title "Silent Songs" is perfectly apt for music that almost never rises above sotto voce... a rich hush. The warm baritone of the singer, Sergey Yakovenko, impressed me as if he were in the very room with me... with the lights dimmed... whispering in my ear. The effect is entrancing... seductive... incredibly moving... almost draining.

Highly recommended!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se0GW7ONThQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssIOHVYjXzI
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 09:41 AM
caldwell.brobeck's Avatar
caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Halifax, NS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,631
 
Hails from Canada
Re: What are you listening to?

Well, thanks to this thread, I'm listening to Bach's Cantata #80, "Ein Feste Burg ist unser Gott" (A Mighty Fortress Is Our God)

A little over 40 years ago, I took a course in high school in musical appreciation. It was supposed to be a gut course - sit around for a year listening to music, and pass a few simple exams. Before that I had had been fairly indifferent to music; rock'n'roll was tolerable (worst musical moment ever was switching between the 3 major rock stations in the car, only to find all three playing Gary Lewis and the Playboys "This Diamond Ring" ), preferred country (when it was still country),and enjoyed both the Motown and gospel available on DC's black stations (music was still informally segregated in the late 60's).

Well, we got a new teacher (a math teacher no less), who decided he was going to give us the same course that he took at Oberlin as an undergrad. It covered Western classical music from the medieval period to the quite modern; by the end we were supposed to be able to at least identify snippets as to period and instruments, read music, know the major composers, and follow a conductor's score. aaargghhhh.....

It was ok interesting until he put on Bach's Ein Feste Burg - the recording by Gonnenwein, with Elly Ameling as the soprano and Janet Baker as alto. The recording is based on the the version adapted by WF Bach - with drums & trumpets - sort of the quintessential big Reformation celebration of faith, hope, and struggle - and the alto aria Komm in Mein Herzenshaus ("Come into My Heart's House") started up.

And that's when I realized just what music could be. That moment is one of those little treasures I have carried around with me ever since.

It's quickly followed by another sublime musical fragment - the alto/tenor duet with oboe - Wie selig sind doch die (How blessed are they), especially the part before the voices start up. I guess if I were to descibe what peace is, musically, it would be that.
=========
Anyway, that moment opened up a whole new world for me; from there to Bach's religious and secular cantatas (the Coffee Cantata is one of my fav's, it's delightfully funny), to say nothing of various versions of the same pieces - for example Rifkin's version of Ein Feste Burg is easily as beautiful as Gonnenwein's, but extremely different, what with it's period/small orchestra/original instrument setting. Or even early ("sewing machine") Glenn Gould vs late (much more humane) Glenn Gould. Then off to other composers; Beethoven and back to Mozart, further back to early music and forward to things like Kronos quartet. And around the world, to Chinese opera, and African music where rhythm is used much the same as westerners use melody, it's been sort of a never-ending voyage.

But it all started with that one piece, and I still go back to it for refreshment.

(My art equivalent is Raphael's St George and the Dragon in terms of appreciation, and Derain's Turning Road, L'Estaque in terms of practice. The first I actually saved up my pennies as a kid to buy a print after seeing it in the National Gallery; the second I came across in a magazine in maybe 10th grade. Funny how those moments stay with you....)
__________________
C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde
Look for yourself, think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Then own them.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 10:57 AM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

My own introduction to classical music began with Bach as well (The Brandenburg Concertos)... along with the other two giants of the Baroque: Handel and Vivaldi. I now have a sizable musical library and listen to every thing from the earliest "classical" music such as this Byzantine chant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ql5V_Osp2Y

on through the latest classical composers... such as Osvaldo Golijov:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qceyTSpNxik

or Arvo Pärt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dweiGyjxhHs

... but J.S. Bach remains as my musical god... towering over even Mozart and Beethoven... as well as everything else. I now have well over 100 discs of Bach's music... and still have yet to have the complete cantatas... although I am working on it... slowly collecting John Elliot Gardiner's cycle... with some alternatives by Ton Koopman, Philippe Herreweghe, the Purcell Quartet, and others. I don't think there's a time when I go into my studio in which I don't have at least one disc of bach's music with me. I was just playing one of the volumes of Gardiner's cycle in the studio the other day when I came across Cantata BWV 156 "Ich steh' mit einem Fuß im Grabe" while The sinfonia which introduces the whole work is one of Bach's most beautiful creations ever... absolutely exquisite. I hadn't heard it in a while, but I immediately stopped working and listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6LNdz43a1I

__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi

Last edited by stlukesguild : 11-07-2010 at 10:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 11:29 AM
llawrence's Avatar
llawrence llawrence is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
East of Eden
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,385
 
Re: What are you listening to?

Bach and Beethoven together hold the top seat in my pantheon. Bach overall, but Ludwig beats him by a nose with just a few pieces. Are you familiar with the Beethoven late string quartets? Best pieces ever written, for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sS6nLOboPY

This morning I'm listening to the Clash.
__________________
My website: http://www.rusticportraits.com
My artwork blog: http://llawrencebispo.wordpress.com
My art materials blog: http://sunsikell.wordpress.com

Last edited by llawrence : 11-07-2010 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 11:45 AM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

I'm not a huge fan of the string quartet... I lean far more toward vocal, symphonic, and solo instrument... but I certainly have all the key quartets: Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Dvorak, Shostakovitch, Bartok... I'd take Bach's Suites for Unaccompanied Cello, the works for solo violin, and surely the Well Tempered Clavier over Beethoven's quartets... but the 9th Symphony?! Now that is something else altogether.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 11:51 AM
llawrence's Avatar
llawrence llawrence is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
East of Eden
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,385
 
Re: What are you listening to?

Always loved the string quartet. For me, it's one of the truly perfect mediums in music. I absolutely agree with you about the unaccompanied cello suites, though I sometimes feel the solo violin pieces sound a bit tortured with their difficulty. It takes a really fine performer to pull them off.

After the cello suites, I'd go for the Art of Fugue - and I've always had a soft spot for those little canons in the Musical Offering. The crab canon just twists my brain in the most enjoyable way. And of course the lute suites, because I've played some of them.
__________________
My website: http://www.rusticportraits.com
My artwork blog: http://llawrencebispo.wordpress.com
My art materials blog: http://sunsikell.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:29 PM
caldwell.brobeck's Avatar
caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Halifax, NS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,631
 
Hails from Canada
Re: What are you listening to?

Thanks StL for the Golijov ref., definitely someone to put on my "must investigate further" list....

I don't know what it's like where you live; up here we used to have a great classical station in CBC's Radio 2; because they devoted so much time to classical, they were able to explore all the little byways of things like minor composers and little known works by the majors. The hosts were generally well known professional musicians who obviously adored their music, and tied it into both world music and popular.

Alas, like so many other things, CBC is trying for a younger, hipper audience, and hence winds up pretty much on the top 100's and lots of new-age/emo mush, though there are still a few good programs.

The station I find myself most often tuning to now is CBC's French language music station, Espace musique (91.5 FM here in Halifax, available on the web). I'm always on the lookout though for others....

Re. Mozart, one wonders what he would have produced had he lived beyond 35 or 36. He was pretty clearly pushing the envelope into areas developed by Beethoven in works like his Requiem.

Perhaps one of the more recent pieces that I have found very moving is Richard Einhorn's Voices of Light. He wrote it in response to Carl Dreyer's 1928 film The Passion of Joan of Arc. The history of the film itself is fascinating (widely acclaimed on release, it was censored by the Church; the prints were burned in a warehouse fire; Dreyer recreated it from outtakes, which in turn were lost to fire; Dreyer gave up and moved on to other things. The original film was considered lost until 1981, when an intact print of the original turned up in an Oslo janitor's closet). Einhorn had been considering doing something on Joan when he chanced upon the film in 1988, it took 6 years to complete. The libretto includes writings contemporaneous with Joan - largely female mystics, including some of her own.

The film and music together are quite powerful; they are available at Amazon, and the music itself as this CD (there's samples on the link).

Cheers;
Chris
(as for what's playing right now, it's the Colin Davis recording of Mozart's Exsultate, Jubilate, sung by Kiri Te Kanawa.)
__________________
C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde
Look for yourself, think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Then own them.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:50 PM
caldwell.brobeck's Avatar
caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Halifax, NS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,631
 
Hails from Canada
Re: What are you listening to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by llawrence
Bach and Beethoven together hold the top seat in my pantheon. Bach overall, but Ludwig beats him by a nose with just a few pieces. Are you familiar with the Beethoven late string quartets? Best pieces ever written, for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sS6nLOboPY

This morning I'm listening to the Clash.

Clash ain't bad, but the Beethoven late string quartets are great. And incredibly modern. On the other hand, the bagatelles are quite a delight.....
__________________
C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde
Look for yourself, think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Then own them.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 01:40 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

I absolutely agree with you about the unaccompanied cello suites, though I sometimes feel the solo violin pieces sound a bit tortured with their difficulty. It takes a really fine performer to pull them off.

Henryck Szeryng or Nathan Milstein... although I've heard much good about the recent Rachel Podger and Gidon Kremer's version has been touted as a love it or hate it unique interpretation... rather quirky... but then so was Glenn Gould.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #12   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 02:21 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

Thanks StL for the Golijov ref., definitely someone to put on my "must investigate further" list....

Golijov is certainly worth investigating. He's an interesting figure: born in Argentina to Romanian/Russian Jewish parents, his mother was a piano teacher and he was surrounded by a variety of music- European chamber music, the tangos of Piazzolla, traditional Hebrew music, klezmer, Latin-American folk and pop music... and later during time spent living in Israel, Middle-Eastern folk and pop traditions. Studying under George Crumb in the US he was exposed to Modernist Western music. His music builds upon all these traditions... blurring them together. I am especially impressed with his disc, Oceana:



his opera, Ainadamar based on the execution of the great Spanish poet, Federigo Garcia-Lorca:



and his Passion of St. Mark... written for the 300th anniversary of Bach's birth:



This last disc is particularly worth the price for the inclusion of a DVD showing the entire Passion in performance.

I don't know what it's like where you live; up here we used to have a great classical station in CBC's Radio 2; because they devoted so much time to classical, they were able to explore all the little byways of things like minor composers and little known works by the majors. The hosts were generally well known professional musicians who obviously adored their music, and tied it into both world music and popular.

Cleveland has WCLV which is committed to classical music to the extent that they have set up a foundation to ensure the survival of classical music on the radio in Cleveland. Of course, at this point I have enough CDs that I rarely listen to the radio... although on line BBC broadcasts, various YoiuTube play lists, and various classical music forums have introduced me to a lot of music that I was unaware of.

Re. Mozart, one wonders what he would have produced had he lived beyond 35 or 36. He was pretty clearly pushing the envelope into areas developed by Beethoven in works like his Requiem.

I can only imagine. His final operas are perhaps his greatest achievements. Another few... especially in the manner of The Magic Flute... a few more piano concertos, some more choral pieces, and another symphony or two... especially in a minor key... something as complex as the finale from the Jupiter... and Mozart would be rapidly approaching Bach in stature.

But then there's Schubert. He died even younger (31) and with the most limited of formal training... and yet his final symphonies rival the best of Beethoven and break new ground, his piano sonatas are grossly underrated, his string quartets are phenomenal, and then there are his songs... in which he is absolutely unrivaled.

Perhaps one of the more recent pieces that I have found very moving is Richard Einhorn's Voices of Light. He wrote it in response to Carl Dreyer's 1928 film The Passion of Joan of Arc. The history of the film itself is fascinating (widely acclaimed on release, it was censored by the Church; the prints were burned in a warehouse fire; Dreyer recreated it from outtakes, which in turn were lost to fire; Dreyer gave up and moved on to other things. The original film was considered lost until 1981, when an intact print of the original turned up in an Oslo janitor's closet). Einhorn had been considering doing something on Joan when he chanced upon the film in 1988, it took 6 years to complete. The libretto includes writings contemporaneous with Joan - largely female mystics, including some of her own.

The film and music together are quite powerful; they are available at Amazon, and the music itself as this CD (there's samples on the link).


I'll need to check more into Einhorn. From the sound of it, you may be interested in some of the so-called "Holy Minimalists" including Arvo Part, John Tavener, and Henryck Gorecki... as well as some more contemporary choral composers. I'll post some links up here later when I have the time. I'm off to buy some supplies so that I can teach this week as the school has deemed that we don't need any supply budget... but we still must teach the standards.

(as for what's playing right now, it's the Colin Davis recording of Mozart's Exsultate, Jubilate, sung by Kiri Te Kanawa.)

Love that piece! I just purchased that specific recording a few weeks back.
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #13   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 02:29 PM
stlukesguild's Avatar
stlukesguild stlukesguild is offline
A WC! Legend
A large urban setting in the Mid-West
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,002
 
Hails from United States
Re: What are you listening to?

Clash ain't bad...

The Clash were OK... but for raw energy that strikes the nerve I'll take Muddy Waters and Elmore James:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4t2A...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNBk1faWI-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UscoDRa-lqU
__________________
Saintlukesguild-http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty—that is all ye know on earth and all ye need to know." - John Keats
"Modern art is what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade themselves that they have a better idea."- John Ciardi
Reply With Quote
  #14   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 03:43 PM
llawrence's Avatar
llawrence llawrence is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
East of Eden
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,385
 
Re: What are you listening to?

Yeah, always dug Schubert and wondered about might-have-beens. (Chopin almost made it to 40, but a couple of more decades of him might have been interesting as well - or do you think he'd already said his piece?) Beethoven and Schubert met briefly in Beethoven's last days if I recall correctly. Beethoven got a chance to look at a few of Schubert's songs, and used the word "genius." Not light praise coming from old Ludwig van.

I've always loved the "Death and the Maiden" quartet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW57vTzNCGg

... and I don't know what you guys are talking about - The Clash were unbelievable. Course, so were Muddy Waters and Elmore James. How about some Buddy Guy? I was lucky enough to see him at the Seattle Blues Festival about two decades ago, back when I didn't know anything about anything. Blew us all right out of the theater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_rd8y8A2oE

James Cotton was there too. Fantastic show.
__________________
My website: http://www.rusticportraits.com
My artwork blog: http://llawrencebispo.wordpress.com
My art materials blog: http://sunsikell.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #15   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-07-2010, 04:33 PM
Clive Green's Avatar
Clive Green Clive Green is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Europe
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,126
 
Hails from New Zealand
Re: What are you listening to?

just listening to birds and cicadas and to Andres Segovia (The 1944 American Recordings Naxos 8.111087) The guitar is perhaps my favourite solo instrument. I have spent years looking for a good recording of anything by Manitas de Plata since I first saw him playing in the movie 'Caravan to Vacarres. I did have a short but unrealistic desire to get a harp after watching Harpo in the racetrack film (name escapes me)

My father played a range of music but mostly blues and folk on our old LaGloria radiogram, which played 78s, 45s and LPs and we could always tune into the concert programme. My first exposure to classical music would possibly have been the soundtracks to the sunday childrens program on 2ZB - diana and the golden apples, peter and the wolf, gump and his triangle

The first piece I remember hearing all the way through was Handel's Water Music, which I now have on vinyl and cd. Then Beethoven's Eroica (ditto)

As I have a cold and find it hard to sleep I'll sit on the porch and listen to Holst tonight (Naxos 8.550193 The Planets, Suite de ballet Op. 10 CSR Symphony Orchestra, Bratislave under Adrian Leaper)
__________________
Kia Ora o Aotearoa Feckless and Irresponsible
My website http://www.otaki-artist.com
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 PM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.