Wine bottle slumping question..pls

[pakc]

hello glass artist....
I need some help please.
I slump wine bottles for my daughter who etches them....
not really a glass art but it is dealing with glass and heat.
My question....
some of the wine bottles have huge air bubbles in them.
I am not sure why some do this and some don't...but what I would like to do
is "pin prick" the holes and then slump the bottles again, ending up with perfectly flat items..
Can glass be slumped twice?
Will this cause other problems that I am unaware of....
biggest problem I am dealing with is I am using my ceramic kiln for the slumping with a thermostat to gauge the heating points.....so this isn't a real fine tuned operation.....
if anyone can answer this or give me any idea of what is happening to cause the bubbles....
I sure would appreciate it.....
thanks

[pakc]

well I know this much so far...that my hold time in step 2 wasn't long enough and that is what causes the air bubbles.....

[gingery]

Hopefully someone with knowledge about this will be in here to help you with this....I'm sorry but this isn't anything that have any experience with.
ginger

[pakc]

thanks gingery...
I went on and gave the slumped bottles another try....
in fact they are firing now.

I did go online and searched for hours any information I could find.
I learned about devit spray and how to make it...
I learned about tack fusing.
I learned that yes glass can be slumped twice but runs the chance of getting a haze on the glass from the temperature.
I even read up on how to cut glass bottles using string...lol

so when this firing is over I will have the knowledge I need and I guess will be able to answer my own question......

[bryntaran]

I slump wine bottles and liquor bottles in my ceramic kiln. I fire at 016 and use my kiln sitter to time it for me. Sometimes I get a bubble and it seems to have to do with the bottle itself. Thickness of bottle glass, thickness of the base, all sorts of things. I have been doing this for so long and have so many bottles (given me, not from drinking it all ), that if I don't like the bottle I throw it out and start again. The Grey Goose vodka bottles are a big favorite and you don't have to do anything except wrap the neck and add a cheese knife, great housewarming, holiday, birthday gifts. Hope this helped a little, Judy

[pakc]

yes it does help....been doing this about a year now myself and this batch this week all seem to want to bubble..so not sure what was going on but through your message and what I have found online it does have to do with the "rapid" rate of heating. I usually am very careful watching and timing but my kiln sitter this time was off...I did not realize it until after the second firing.
The heat was way to high, in fact I have never fired bottles that high before.
I have a special thermostat that I put into one of the air vents that gives me the exact temperature....and along with the kiln sitter not shutting off when it should, the thermostat got stuck at 1300....and I was still trying to get to 1475....so the whole batch is a mess.

The unfortunate part of this is....some of the bottles were special order commemorative bottles. Anniversary Dom Perignon that after firing will have the label reattached and the date and place etched into the glass..and no I am not going to go out and replace that bottle.LOL It will be a disappointment all the way around on this miss firing. I had several vodka bottles that were 'special" like the gray goose....one that appeared to have an etched overcast to the bottle that was lost during the firing, I will re-etch that one to give it the same look.

So I have learned more, I will slow the firing down, I will make sure the bottles are totally dry, I will make sure the kiln wash is also dry and then go out there and do it again......and will have my fingers crossed that everything will once again fire correctly.

thanks for the input...very much appreciated.

[bryntaran]

Me again and now I have a question for you.... Do you have trouble with the kiln wash sticking to your bottles that have painting on them (Grey Goose, 3 Olives, etc)? I finally started buying filter paper to put on the shelves and it just turns to dust after the firing. It is expensive, but when I just have lots of liquor bottles to do, it makes it sooo much easier. Otherwise I have to soak the bottles after firing and then scrape the kiln wash off with a knife-ugh! Obviously I have spent lots of time over the kitchen sink.
Sorry about the Dom bottle, That had to break your heart when you opened the kiln. I have never done one of those, done a few Perrier-Jouet painted ones though and they come out nicely.
I also wash the bottles, stand them upside down for a few days then dry them in my oven for another few days, moisture trapped in them is a very bad thing (said from experience). Judy

[pakc]

Yes, I did at first have trouble with the kiln wash....but I soon learned to put it on in very thin coats....then take a stocking and lightly wipe the shelf down to get rid of ridges and to give the shelf a smoother finish. I also have to make sure that the kiln wash has dried a couple of days before I fire bottles on it ...or I might even fire a bisque firing first to set the wash then I will fire the bottles. Oh yes, I also have to make sure that the bottles are prefectly dry and no moisture from handling them while stacking..cause the moisture is what makes the kiln wash come off on to the bottles.

When I get kiln wash stuck to the bottle...I soak it in very hot water and then after a few minutes I use a scrubbing sponge and it is pretty easy to get it off. I also heated the bottle in the oven and then scraped the kiln wash off...but I thought the soaking was easier.

I bought a kiln blanket or maybe it is called kiln paper. It is thicker than the kiln filter that you are describing and can be used several times if handled carefully but it gives a bumpy surface to the bottles and since I etch on the surface I like a pretty smooth area. I bought the kiln paper in Austin Texas at the Armadillo Factory. You may be able to google their website and find out what I am talking about. I don't have a supply store here and since I travel to Texas a lot I stock up when I am down there and save shipping costs.

What have I learned in response to my original question.....I have found out that if you take a bubble and 'pin prick" it with a dremel tool and fire it again you get "divots" .......or small sunken holes on the top side of the bottle.....not as bad as the blistered bubbles but still not what I wish to have. I then thought maybe I could take my torch....I have a welding torch and melt some frit into the small indentations...but then I thought...shoot ....just throw the bottle out and start with a new batch their free....seems I have a lot of drinking friends who are more than willing to donate to my cause...LOL

Do you ever loosen the labels and then after the firing replace the label on the bottle? The champagne is one we were going to do this too and I figured to protect it I would need to use ModPodge or something like that with a cure rating that would hold up. I am also considering painting on the bottles. I have located a dye that is suppose to hold up in the firing process. I guess that is what grey goose uses and stays on the bottle even when you slump it.

We came up with this process for getting the labels off easier...Fill the bottles with hot water then cork them and soak them in a sink filled with hot water....leaving the cork in and hot water inside take a bottle out of the soaking sink and using a single blade razor the label will practically glide right off...if it seems to stick a little put it back in the soaking hot water.

[glasscrafting]

"I also have to make sure that the kiln wash has dried a couple of days before I fire bottles on it ...or I might even fire a bisque firing first to set the wash then I will fire the bottles."

Kiln wash should always be fired once before fusing, slumping or otherwise using the shelf/mold with any glass in the kiln. Firing tempurature for kiln wash alone is usually around 500 degrees, check the instructions with the kiln wash. With proper application (even coating, several coats, brush on at 90 degree angle to previous coat, smooth away brush strokes after all applications but before firing) I have been able to fire on a shelf or in a mold up to ten times or more without needing to reapply.

I have slumped bottles also, and you are correct that heating up the kiln too fast causes issues. Portions of the bottle, due to hot spots in the kiln or thin spots in the bottle, can unevenly sag, one potential cause of bubbles. A longer hold at the temperature where the bottle just starts to sag, 1300-1325 in my kiln, works better to squeeze out the bubbles, than a shorter hold at a higher temp.

For mild devit, I have recently discovered that cerium oxide (used as the final polish in rock tumblers) works great. Use like a bit of scouring powder on a damp rag, with enough water to make a thick slurry.

Fun things I have done with clear or light colored bottles: put copper mesh or punched out copper shapes inside before firing, they will turn red; sheets of silver leaf or foil, gold foil for a special bottle. Warning: silver often turns yellowish, can look gold, but can also yellow the glass. Experiment before trying with best bottle. Bamboo skewers work well to manipulate the items into position. Mica dust I have also used, this does not show up as well. Sorry no pictures, gave them away as gifts.

[pakc]

great ideas glasscrafting.....ty.

I didn't pay attention to the kiln wash instructions and just sometimes fire away. I now see I am luckier than I thought. I always jump in with both feet and then wonder now what and do a lot of dog paddling to get back to square one. LOL...so with kiln wash I will have a different attitude.......

Yeah, I have found that my "bubble" issue is because the kiln is getting too hot too soon and not allowing the bottle to adjust to the temperature in a slow manner. My hubs adjusted my kiln setter but it became too loose and was shutting off too soon so I (hum) propped it shut and that cause the kiln to fire too high too quick....so another lesson learned..get hubs back out to undo his adjustment.....

The idea on the polishing grit is wonderful...I have tons of that.
I have been thinking about breaking the bubbled bottles up into pieces and then throwing the pieces into the rock tumbler to round off the edges...see what I get. Nothing wasted nothing gained....also thought maybe of just breaking the bottles and making some type of wired sun catcher out of the pieces....images and ideas roam around my head so much that I cant always get to them in a organized manner. Oh well..some day some day.

I have tried to upload a photo of one of the etched bottles but I can't seem to get that to work......

maybe at some point I will figure that out as well.

[pakc]

[Scrappy01]

question Please:
When slumping your wine bottles do you use a mold?
I saw a show of Vickie Payne and she was slumpling a bottle. She just put it in the kiln and it came out nice but I would be scared of it rolling for one and two overflowing on the shelf and having melting glass on the bottom of my kiln..
Thanks

[glasscrafting]

I use a mold, but I have also seen it done without a mold. You are correct, rolling is an issue without a mold. There are ways to keep the bottle from rolling, such as a couple small bits of fiber paper (the thicker stuff, about 1/4 inch thick) tucked under either side of the bottom of the bottle and at the other end just before the neck starts. I have also seen the neck rested on a very thick pad of fiber to keep it raised off the ground as a handle. A firebrick under the neck works also, but does not preclude rolling unless it has a small notch or indent.

Overflowing the shelf is all in the temperature. The bottle slumps between 1300 and 1350 degrees F, will fully melt into a blob around 1475-1500, and won't start oozing off the shelf until over 1500 degrees. So if you can control the kiln temperature reliably, and keep it just high enough to slump, you should not have any glass overflow the shelf. Just be sure the bottle is stable in the center of your shelf with no part overhanging the shelf. It is best to have a shelf at least two inches longer than the bottle.

[mywayagain]

I slump beer bottles for spoon rests. How does one remove Corona bottle labels? Or,can they also be fused in the kiln like grey goose bottles. I fuse clear bottles on texture plates with support for the neck of the
bottle.

[sbrown10455]

help me please...I just slumped my first wine bottle and it went really good I think...only thing is the botttle is white colored on the topside..is this normal and how do I get it off? do I need to do something different to prevent this problem?