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Old 09-12-2006, 08:57 AM
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AmyLC AmyLC is offline
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Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Argh! I'm attempting to build my own frame. I have a Logan Mitre saw and sander and the pro-joiner. I'm using lengths of molding I purchased on-line. I've got the hang of cutting and sanding - when I lay the frames out on a table they sit flat and line-up perfectly.

But then I put them in the joiner. UGH. Every time I try to join a corner, they seperate at the last minute and I'm left with a big gaping "crack" in the corner - enough for light to be shining through!!! I've tried only using one v-staple at a time, and I've tried pressing either slower or faster. I haven't been using glue in the joint yet - but it seems that if there was glue in the joint I MAY be able to put it in a vise and get it to glue shut after I've "joined" it. But is glue strong enough to hold long-term if I need to squeeze it in a vise to get the edges to touch??

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks for any ideas you have!!
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:17 AM
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mick11 mick11 is offline
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Amy,

A lot of people have problems with this joiner.
First of all you must follow the manual to the letter.

Some things I know that cause problems:

"V" nails upside down.(it happens)
Clamp to tight/to loose
Not using the black spacer when needed.
Not pulling the handle down in one fast smooth motion
On some mouldings you may need to just pack the back with a piece of scrap card. I sometimes have to do this with my professional nailer on awkward mouldings.

The correct sequence is to glue, clamp then nail straight away. Put your first nail about 5-10mm in from the rebate and go no further out that about 10mm from the outer edge.

Also I think there is another thread on this where I helped someone else, so try a search

If you are still stuck come back to me.
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Old 09-12-2006, 03:55 PM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Thank you.

sigh. Is there another joiner that people have better luck with? I'm already ready to toss this one out the window!!!!

I'm planning to start a small framing business out of my basement.....I'll take mat and frame samples to the clients' homes to allow them to choose and then return the finished product to them. I don't plan to be super busy for a couple years -I'll be doing this along with being a mom to 4 kids.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:41 PM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Amy,

The easiest one to use that I have found for a beginner is the "Frameco" benchmaster (Code #14729) used with their strap clamp (Code #10106) on this website http://www.frameco-online.com/shopusa/. There are also some notes and video's on this site.
I would also suggest you buy the books by Vivian Kistler that are relevent to what you intend doing. She is one of the top framers in the US.

One thing you must realise is that good framing is a skilled craft, and it takes time to learn how to use the tools and techniques. There is a lot more involved in framing than just sticking four pieces of wood together and cutting a mount. This is even more relevant when you are working with other peoples art.

So be patient. I have been framing profesionally for 7 years and teaching framing for the last 2 years, and I am still learning.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:49 PM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi,
A few days ago I found a nylon strap / clamp in Sears hardware department, similar to the metal band clamp that Frameco has. It is also on Sears website http://www.sears.com under Craftsman Adjustable Band Clamp item #00931539000 Mfr. model #31539. This is less expensive than the Frameco band clamp. If you are near a Sears store you may be able to pick one up.

I did not buy it because I just purchased a Frameco framing equipment set, and it came with the metal band strap / clamp. I have not tried it out yet, but my husband and I have done other wood working projects and have found the need to keep a frame clamped all the way around and square until the glue is set.

You could also try one of the nylon Ratchet Tie Down straps. This will help in keeping the frame together but not necessarily square. You would have to watch that the metal part did not damage the frame.

Good Luck
Arrilia
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:36 AM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Arrilia,

There are dozens of cheaper clamps on the market, but having tried all the different types/styles, the frameco one is the one that is easiest to use, designed for the job, and gives excellent results. I have one I use when repairing delicate old frames.

If you are using "V" nails you do not need to keep the frame clamped until
the glue is set as this is the primary funtion of them.

A tip when using your band clamp

Clamp the frame up dry and make sure all the joints are tight with no gaps. Loosed the clamp slightly, take out the top rail and apply a small bead of glue to the centre of both ends, replace it in the clamp. Do the same with the bottom rail, then clamp up tight. "V" nail while the glue is still wet. You can then release the clamp and admire your work.
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:32 AM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into the Frameco joiner. I hate to spend the money on another one when I already have the Logan.....I might keep practicing a bit longer before I scrap it. But if I just can't get it to work right, it's just costing me money in ruined frames anyway (and tons of frustration!!!).

I have 3 of the books by Vivian Kistler already.....I'll look into the others.

Silly quick question......the sharp side of the v-nail is the side that appears to be thinner, right? Mine are just loose in a little plastic bag so I have to pull them out and examine them to decide. The difference is subtle, but one end appears to be a tiny bit thicker than the other. Just making sure!!

Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:10 AM
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mick11 mick11 is offline
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Amy,

The only silly question is the one you didn't ask

If you have any of Vivian's books you are going in the right direction, and will Know what I am talking about when I say there is a lot to learn. I have the complete set and still use them occasionally for reference.

I have used all the logan framing tools when teaching, (I worked for the UK main distributer last year) and don't like any of it. My opinion is, it is difficult to use, over engineered, overpriced, and over here

Trust Logan to make things difficult for you."V" nails normally come as a stack, and the blunt sides are glued together.
The sharp side looks like a wood chisel with one bevel edge on the sharp end. There is also a "V" nail for hard wood frames that is sharpened on both sides like a knife. I have found no difference in the performance of them, and use the softwood ones for everything.

If you still have problems with the logan joiner after taking account of my tips, get back to me.
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:27 PM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Thanks Mick.

I gave up on the Logan last night and ordered the Frameco that you recommended! Hopefully I'll have less frustration with this one!

I'm curious what your opinions are on mitres? I have a low-tech mitre and hand saw - there are stops to achieve a 45 degree cut. I think I'm getting a good cut and I'm able to lay the frames flat on the table with all 4 corners lining up perfectly (I also have a rotary sander, turned by hand). But it does seem to be time-consuming to cut the moldings this way. I see there are other methods of cutting molding - guilatine(sp), chopper, etc.. What would you recommend for a small basement business?

Thank you so much for sharing your skill and knowledge!
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:18 PM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Amy,

The Logan saw should give you very accurate cuts, and a couple of turns with the sander should take off the "fluffy"bits. I use the "Nobex Proman" hand saw as I am also limited for space. Again you will find with pratice, you can cut frames quite quickly. It takes me about ten minutes to cut 4 rails using an average sized moulding.

There are only a couple of choppers for mouldings on the market and they are very large and very heavy. The best known one is made by "Morso" and they are often for sale second hand, but expect to pay around $1500 second hand.
There are also specialist electric saws, but they are noisy, bulky and very expensive
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Old 12-15-2006, 03:04 PM
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Smile Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

In reply to Mick11, I use Cassese or Mitretite wedges and these are held together by a coating of silicone on the SHARP end (just checked). The silicone helps to lubricate the wedge and makes it much easier to push in. I use some of the Frame co tools and have found them very good, especially the guillotine which gives great 90 degree corners. All depends on what you can afford though but for a small home business like mine it was well worth the money and doesn't take up a lot of space.
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Old 12-16-2006, 07:46 PM
jtholden jtholden is offline
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Hi Amy,
I experienced the exact same thing with the Logan - I have the sander and joiner back in their boxes and will either sell or donate to the local Senior Center. I found them to only work well with flat profiles. I also have the Logan 650 mat cutter and love it....

I currenly use United's miter sander and a Fletcher 550 joiner and have great results with them. The other key piece of equipment I have it a regular miter saw with a 100 tpi blade and a measuring system which allows you to cut very accuratley.

It is frustrating while you are on the learning curve and it is so tough when you are not sure which system will work the best and which is costing you a fortune for bells and whistles you may or may not use....

Anyway. Best of luck - I too have two kids and frame from by basement - mostly for local artists but also more and more by word of mouth.
Anything that I can help with, feel free to email me [email protected]
good luck
JH
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:58 PM
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Jess Black Jess Black is offline
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

I have used a spray can of matte clear paint to put a non-glare finish.I have some paintings that are 5-6 yrs.old and the matte finish works fine.I spray one light coat to the outside,it dries in 5 minutes,and you can work with it.it will also work as a uv coating.To try spray apiece of clean glass and sit it the sun with comic paper underneath...............Good Luck Jess
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:48 AM
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Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess Black
I have used a spray can of matte clear paint to put a non-glare finish.I have some paintings that are 5-6 yrs.old and the matte finish works fine

Hi Jess and welcome to WC
I think you may have somehow put this post in the wrong place
We can if you wish move it, or you can repost it in the correct place.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:03 PM
lmsart lmsart is offline
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Smile Re: Anyone use a Logan Joiner????

I know this post is old, but just in case anyone new reads it....

I too hate the Logan - I have the Pro Joiner 2. But I figured out a way to stop it from opening up at the joint seam and it is simple...

I have two small C-clamps that I attach to the frame inside edge and under the yellow plate. They fit perfectly and they hold the wood tight to the plate so that it doesn't buckle up... Gee...you would think Logan would have figured it out, but apparently not....
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