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Old 06-12-2019, 08:55 PM
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Monichetta Monichetta is offline
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Lightbulb Help constructing a niche palette?

Hiya!

Iím putting together a very specific ĎWhimsicalí palette for my 9yo. Iím having so much fun with it, wondered if anyone wants to join in? Yes, itís keeping me from painting my own first 100 watercolours and yes, I know Iím addicted to swatching!

The Brief:
- Daughter wants to paint in the style of Jane Davenport & Danielle Donaldson (with just pencil & watercolour, not their mixed media stuff). A quick Google images search will show you they are mainly illustrative, whimsical, favour watery small washes, kind of pastel colours with contrasting neutrals. Some last minute white posca detailing.

-Given her age, Iím happy to include convenience colours, and guide her into mixing her own down the track. No limited palette here, in fact lots of opportunity for trick paints (eg Rose of Ultramarine) and maybe even a sparkly primatek?

-Firmly against including fugitive pigments, and 3 pigment mixes. Preferably single pigment, 2 if I must for the trick ones. Other preferences (but not dealbreakers) are: pigments that react well to salt & backrun techniques, transparent, pigments that mix well/neutralise well, pigments good in low, med & strong tints. Not too staining, unless thereís overriding reasons to include. Not overly concerned about including toxic or non-vegan pigments, if no alternative exists. No very bossy pigments. I like granulation.

-Iím considering putting in a couple of milky (PW6) pigments to get her going on contrast. Might have to put them in a mini seperate palette, to keep her from contaminating. Looking for suggestions that go with the style.

-I have an embarrassing number of artist grade paints in my collection, and am willing to buy more for this project. Prefer buying tubes, and filling pans. I magnetise them and use metal palettes. Usually decorative vintage biscuit tins. Then china plates or those compartmentalised flower dishes for mixing.

Right-O.

Looking at the two artistís repertoires (and online clues about their palettes), I think I need the following:

COOL YELLOW
WARM YELLOW
ORANGE/CORAL
LIPSTICK RED
CHERRY RED
PURPLE/PINK
MUTED PINK
PURE PINK
MAUVE
BLUE/VIOLET
SHADOW
SKY BLUE
ROYAL BLUE
BLUE GREY
TURQUOISE (AQUA)
TURQUOISE (TEAL)
BRIGHT GREEN
MID GREEN
INDIGO
PERYLENE GREEN
COOL BROWN
WARM BROWN
RED EARTH

Yes, yes, I know these should be mixable from 3 tubes. But this is a consciously colourista palette exercise. Probably the wet dream of the Daniel Smith marketing folk, huh? I may not need 24 distinct tubes/pans in the end, but I need to minimise mixing so she can concentrate on water control, brush marks & experiment with the accidental mixing on the paper. Playing with the rainbow, to put it more whimsically!

Iíve got lots of good ideas from my swatching and research, but would love to see others thoughts. Maybe Iím massively misinterpreting the style of these artists. Please also include any observations you make about their techniques, all very useful. Iíll try and include a pic of one of my test sheets, feel free to critique that too.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:43 PM
Violet Lake Violet Lake is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

If you can't play with fugitive paints when you're nine years old, when can you? Jane Davenport's own watercolor line is fluorescent dyes and convenience skin mixes galore and she fully embraces those in her workshops. There is quite a lot of opera pink in her work. Danielle Donaldson seems to own and use pretty much the entire range of Daniel Smith watercolors and the color mixing in her paintings is very intuitive, much different from standard methods taught in traditional watercolors. In a lesson I took with her, she used five convenience colors in one mix (!!!).

All that to say, the mixed media artists she likes are a world away from more "fine art" watercolorists and don't have much in common with their rules or techniques. Maybe just put in a few basics of your choice and let her fill out the rest with fun colors? On the other hand, it might be best to limit her to more predictable pigments to start and introduce her to things like Primateks as she gets older. When I was beginning watercolor, there was a learning curve where I didn't understand why some of my colors were so much more opaque than others, why some granulated or had low tinting strength, etc., and I was in my twenties with access to Handprint. You could explain it to her, but it might be frustrating if she just wants to put color on the page and get the result she expects. That's just my perspective, though.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:46 AM
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calvin_0 calvin_0 is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

base on their work, I would suggest...

Buff Titanium
Winsor Yellow (PY154)
Pyrole Orange RS (PO73)
Quin Magenta (PR122)
Opera Rose
Phthalo Turquoise (PB16)
Ultramarine Deep
Cobalt Teal\Turquoise (PG50)
Burnt Sienna (PR101)
Neutral tint

or You can also get her Koi Creative Art Colours 24 Set

Last edited by calvin_0 : 06-13-2019 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 11:35 AM
Macarona Macarona is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I agree with my prescribers that fugitive colors are the greatest for children.
At the age of nine most children lack the basic skills in drawing to imitate the style of artists.
You should teach this knowledge to your child so that the motivation lasts longer than a few days.
Most of the time, the fine motor skills are not as well developed in the age, it takes some time to set up successes.
I started myself at the age of 10 and only at 13-14 did my pictures look OK.

I thought 9yo is your child's nickname. I thought your child is 15-16 because of all your text.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:52 PM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I should clarify that my 9yo isnít a beginner at watercolour- in fact sheís won two painting shows (childrenís division) and sold them both. Sheís new to this particular Ďwhimsicalí style, so Iím constructing her a purpose palette. Also I love constructing palettes!

Thanks for your suggestions so far, lots of interesting ideas. I wonít be buying fugitive paints though. Iíve never found any need for them, when there are such lovely lightfast alternatives. Surely itís even more important that she be able to look back at her paintings in 50 years, with the colours intact? In this washy style I doubt anyone would recognise itís Quin Rose (PV19) rather than fugitive Opera Rose.

Of course I say that, but am slightly addicted to Indigo and the Prussians in my own painting!
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:58 PM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

My daughterís go-to palette is the Sennelier 12 pan (artist grade). They are mostly a bit vibrant for the style she wants to experiment with now. Even heavily diluted.

She loves lots of my Daniel Smithís, especially the Ďtrickí paints like the Lunars, Cascade Green and any Primatek with sparkle!
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:24 PM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monichetta
In this washy style I doubt anyone would recognise itís Quin Rose (PV19) rather than fugitive Opera Rose.


I wont be to sure about that since Opera Rose is one of those color which is rather obvious.. that why I added Opera Rose into mine since after a look at their arts, I notice Opera Rose right away..


bright color is the key of their style and there is no red brighter than Opera Rose.


also Opera Rose being fugitive doesnt stop Botanical Artist from using them... in fact it's a staple in their palette.... so If there is a group of artist uses them, I dont see why your daughter cant use them..
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:03 PM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

seeing as how they both use DS paints I would suggest using the DS Essentials set and then adding a few more to personal taste. your list seems very large for a youngster starting out.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:47 PM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Another person suggesting you not second guess the opera pink. If you do sub for it, a quin magenta in pr122 is probably a better choice than quin rose. While your daughter may be very talented, isnít the point more about her having fun versus amassing a bunch of art works to look back on in a couple decades?

But hey, why guess when you can look at pigment info for Janeís colors! https://janedavenport.com/shop/suppl...rcolor-bundle/.

I think the DS essentials set is perfect for many things, but it doesnít really fit the idea of a young artist diving into a specific - Davenport - style. Sheís 9! Nothing wrong with letting a child just play.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:23 AM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I think anyone selling paintings needs to steer clear of fugitives. But it looks like Iím in the minority on that one!
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:52 AM
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monichetta
I think anyone selling paintings needs to steer clear of fugitives. But it looks like Iím in the minority on that one!

well, we do have a lot more ways to protect from UV then in the days of Van Gogh... plus a lot of lightfastness test are stimulated under direct sunlight.. as far as i know, nobody would display painting under direct sunlight..

not to mention, Opera Rose are not like other fugitive paint, it doesnt fade completely like Alizarin Crimson or Rose Madder.. it would only lose its fluorescent glow.. the base (which is either PR122 or PV19 or a combination of both) would still remain..

If you really against Opera Rose, you can include titanium white in the palette and ask your daughter to make a pink with it from either PR209, PR122 or PV19. it's not going to be able to match up to Opera Rose, but it would be brighter than pink made with dilution because titanium white is an optical brightener and it would be completely lightfast.. the only problem is it would turn the paint opaque... so it not as useful for mixing and glazing..
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:40 AM
Violet Lake Violet Lake is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Will she be selling these? This style is usually more intended for reproduction or confined to an art journal where the paintings stay protected. I'm not really into the bright neons myself, though, and I don't think they're absolutely necessary. I agree with the suggestions of PR122, PR209 and PV19; those are what I use all the time. Add in PR255 and she's set for basic reds, IMO, or you can exchange the PR209 with DS Mayan red for a fun granulating option instead.

I'm surprised she finds the Sennelier palette too vibrant because Jane especially leans towards those sort of loud colors, but I understand where she may be having trouble neutralizing it as that set does contain a lot of strange multi-pigment mixes and hues, IIRC. Personally, I would at least encourage her to practice mixing skin tones from that set if she's not already accustomed to doing it. My paintings are more or less in this vein of stylized portraiture too and knowing how to get what I need for a face out of any set of colors I'm using has been one of the skills I rely on most in this kind of art.

If it's helpful, my main palette is mostly Winsor & Newton but I do have a separate palette of all Daniel Smith particularly for more illustrative stuff like this, and my most essential colors out of those are naples yellow, pyrrol scarlet, quinacridone rose, carbazole violet, French ultramarine and quinacridone burnt orange, with Mayan blue, jadeite and piemontite coming in as my favorite Primateks. Rose of ultramarine is also surprisingly useful for portraits in addition to just being a beautiful and very tempting specialty paint. Love amethyst for some occasional sparkle too. I do have buff titanium in there as well, though it's not one I usually reach for, but it is a favorite of Jane Davenport's and I think it'd help your daughter get those subtle colors like in Danielle Donaldson's paintings.

You've probably seen her Daniel Smith dot card online already, but there's also this curated Schmincke palette Jane produced a few years before she had her own branded line that could be useful for seeing what to sub in from your DS range. Hopefully that link works.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:14 AM
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CharM CharM is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Monichetta, what fun! The palette you've chosen will thrill your 9 year old. I made up palettes for my Granddaughters when they were about 10 years old, and I also gave them lots of bright colours.

Over time, you can begin teaching the concepts of mixing and palette types. I taught Home School children for several years and it was amazing how quickly they absorbed and used our various palette choices while learning colour theory.

We actually talked about fugitive colours. My Students didn't want their paintings to fade and they were excited about hanging their work. It usually was just pinned up on cork boards in their rooms (according to the Moms), but displayed nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calvin_0
I wont be to sure about that since Opera Rose is one of those color which is rather obvious.. that why I added Opera Rose into mine since after a look at their arts, I notice Opera Rose right away..


bright color is the key of their style and there is no red brighter than Opera Rose.


also Opera Rose being fugitive doesnt stop Botanical Artist from using them... in fact it's a staple in their palette.... so If there is a group of artist uses them, I dont see why your daughter cant use them..


No. Teaching our young people to select colours responsibly begins at their early age.

Just because a group of Artists uses fugitive colours doesn't make it right... or that they'll not fade.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:32 PM
Macarona Macarona is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

I mean fluorescent colors, autocorrect fail.
I can imagine that the colors are too intense, Jane uses the colors sometimes very diluted.
I also have the problem with some colors that they are too intense,
I also bought these colors as a student quality.

Could you please put a painted picture of her here?
You've made some pretty curious here.
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Stay calm you can not protect all people from mistakes they make. They should also be allowed to learn from mistakes and gain experience. Especially financial mistakes. Keep calm, you can not prevent that there are not only reasonable suggestions from people. Especially on the subject: only try and how long. Important topic: Please Save the Internet, that we can still share a lot of knowledge. # No articles 11 and 13!!!
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:12 AM
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Monichetta Monichetta is offline
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Re: Help constructing a niche palette?

Thanks Violet Lake for that link to an early Jane Davenport Schminke palette- my research missed that altogether and itís a very interesting piece of the puzzle! She definitely changed to a murkier, more mauve-based palette with Daniel Smith, hey?

And thanks CharM, I was beginning to think I was alone in avoiding fugitives! Due to wetcanvas, I never even bought some by accident. Well, perhaps some fringe-dwellers! If I had a magic wand, Iíd banish them all from the kingdom, and Iím sure the sun would still rise for everyone!

Macarona- Iím not sure if youíre asking for a pic of my daughter and/or her art (or maybe I misunderstood even that!) but hereís a pic of her with her 2nd place painting at an art show this April (8-12yo division). First painting to sell, 20 minutes after the doors opened. Actually bought by the Mayorís wife (pictured)! Late last year she won her category in a different art show, and sold her painting to a young sculptor. By high school, Iím hoping I can retire on her earnings.

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