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Old 02-23-2018, 06:28 PM
Use Her Name's Avatar
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Staying quiet for money

This is just a question, but perhaps something to think about. As an artist, do you tend to keep your mouth shut about political, religious, lifestyle, or controversial beliefs in hopes of "making the sale?"

I think I tend to, but since a sale can come from anywhere, it is very hard for me to share any of my controversial beliefs or convictions because I never know when I am going to (or if I am going to) blow a sale. In the end, I tend to look like I am agreeing with people whom I actually disagree with; sort of nod and smile, but without actually agreeing.

It gets harder and harder to remain quiet about my lifestyle or convictions.

Perhaps I need psychoanalysis, however, I think it would be interesting to see if this is a common behavior, or if I am the only one.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:02 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

No, I don't have that problem. But then again, I'm really lucky, since Canadians - especially out here in Atlantic Canada - tend to be polite, tolerant, and given to see the funny/absurd side of whatever argument they're putting forward. And when things do get rough, you can settle any argument with a beer, or divert it by talking about the Americans.

Cheers;
Chris
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I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:02 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

I mostly don't post about political stuff on my personal FB page, and I removed pretty much all the political stuff I'd posted there in the past when I realized that my personal page was going to have to function as my art business page due to FB refusing to promote a business page unless you paid them a lot of money. Most of the sales I've made have been by people seeing my work on FB, so I think that fits in with your idea of keeping quiet in order to make sales. Yes, I felt funny about it. But my FB page is not the only place for me to express my political views. I do talk politics with friends, and we can disagree mightily.

My art site, Etsy shop, and Instagram have no political content unless you include the art itself. In my view, all art has a political content whether it's intentional or not. It doesn't have to be in your face, but it's always there. Even so, I would like to think that the images I make can be accessible to people with worldviews very different from my own.

This is actually a topic that I have seen discussed amongst online retailers, and some people are for firing a customer who can't shut up about their offensive views, while others are just take their money and move on. I have fired a couple of customers of my non-art shop for being inflammatory. It's your business; it's allowed.

I do have a friend who got very angry at me because I said I was happy to take the money of rich people.
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Old 02-24-2018, 02:11 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

I actually lost three long term clients because I did not agree with their political point of view. I always knew their political bent and just created commissions for them because they liked my work and from my point of view I saw art as my job. Unfortunately and ironically, we became friends and got along very well but this is where things fell apart. They were more politically involved than I imagined and asked me to participate in promoting their agenda. When I refused and explained why, they got angry and cut me off. I guess artistic freedom was only allowed if I agreed with them.
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Old 02-24-2018, 03:00 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

When visiting my late mom's and my dad's kitchenware store, I observed his new wife loudly spouting off nasty things about the POTUS and saw several customers in line quietly leaving and putting items back.

Just wanted to throw that in there.
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Old 02-24-2018, 03:57 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Yes, this is what I am talking about-- from either side of the political polarity (not for me to judge). But does it stop you from using your 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech (for those in the US, at least), in order to keep your customers pleased (or at least believing you were not in conflict with their views.)
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Old 02-24-2018, 04:43 PM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Use Her Name
Yes, this is what I am talking about-- from either side of the political polarity (not for me to judge). But does it stop you from using your 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech (for those in the US, at least), in order to keep your customers pleased (or at least believing you were not in conflict with their views.)
Could you elaborate a bit more on your situation? I think it is a situational call.
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Old 02-24-2018, 06:53 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBongolian
Could you elaborate a bit more on your situation? I think it is a situational call.

It is more of a hypothetical situation. I have seen it happen with celebrities of all kind, not to say that artists are celebrities, but the thought of being abandoned by potential collectors or buyers would lead me to strictly compartmentalize my public life (work-life) from my private life.

(Off subject)
This would mean, (as for instance Herold Roth, said about Facebook, and the fact that it seems impossible to have more than one "career." ) I found out that "Linked in" only will accommodate one "career" for instance. I work doing one thing, but my real vocation is being an artist. But I have to choose whether I want linked in to be about one job or the other. I would rather just work for myself, but I am not allowed to use linked in or other tools at my disposal. It is kind of disgusting the job "offers" I am sent by them. Assistant management for a rip-off payday loan business (etc.)

(Really off subject)
This makes me think: I have been looking for a job recently, and my job counselor made me basically purge all of my artistic leanings (and experience) from my resume to make me seem more like other people. I have been an artist and doing art for money for quite a long time, and yet now I have a spotty record with lots of gaps in my work record. So we have concocted a story about my spotty job history, and that is a total lie. I just hate working for other people, and would rather run my own business. This is why I am getting those crappy job suggestions: Assistant management for a rip-off payday loan business (etc.)
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:11 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Use Her Name
Yes, this is what I am talking about-- from either side of the political polarity (not for me to judge). But does it stop you from using your 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech (for those in the US, at least), in order to keep your customers pleased (or at least believing you were not in conflict with their views.)
It doesn't stop us from using our First Amendment right to free speech because we still have the right to say what we want. It just has consequences for us that are really only slightly different than those experienced by people with regular jobs. Most people cannot shoot their mouths off at work. And they don't have a constitutional right to do so either.

As a business owner, you do have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as you are not discriminating against a protected class. People with different political views from one's own are not a protected class according to the law.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:15 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by artbymdp
I actually lost three long term clients because I did not agree with their political point of view. I always knew their political bent and just created commissions for them because they liked my work and from my point of view I saw art as my job. Unfortunately and ironically, we became friends and got along very well but this is where things fell apart. They were more politically involved than I imagined and asked me to participate in promoting their agenda. When I refused and explained why, they got angry and cut me off. I guess artistic freedom was only allowed if I agreed with them.
For me, the situation with friends is way tougher than with strangers. I have had friends (not clients) who expected me to use my art to further political concepts we held in common. I decided I didn't want to do that, and it affected our relationship. I also saw how they expected other artists to do this. I don't think anyone needs to devote their skills for free to some cause or other. But I know that some people consider that perspective just selfish or self-absorbed.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:17 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
It doesn't stop us from using our First Amendment right to free speech because we still have the right to say what we want. It just has consequences for us that are really only slightly different than those experienced by people with regular jobs. Most people cannot shoot their mouths off at work. And they don't have a constitutional right to do so either.

As a business owner, you do have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as you are not discriminating against a protected class. People with different political views from one's own are not a protected class according to the law.


A good reminder. Thanks. Personally, I have not read the place in the constitution where your rights end when you walk into a workplace but it must exist if it is such an (unspoken) law.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:30 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Use Her Name
This would mean, (as for instance Herold Roth, said about Facebook, and the fact that it seems impossible to have more than one "career.")
Yeah, I think the world wants everyone to specialize so we can be neatly pigeon-holed. We talk about how we value individualism, but in fact our culture loves conformity and lock-step. Speaking of pigeon-holes, many of my FB people know me as someone who runs an online shop in occulture, and they are kind of set back about my art. Like why isn't it all about occulture, for instance? Some people find it difficult to accept that we can all have many different sides and interests.

What you say about stupid job offers is one of the reasons why I did everything I could to create my own work after I left academia. A relative was encouraging me to get some kind of tech job, but I could see I would never fit into the corporate world, tech or not. Or really just the world. Because I am not a team player and my ability to pretend to care about things that regular jobs prize just isn't there. So I was a janitor for several years. The pay was terrible, but there was plenty of work and no one gives a damn if you are a team player or not. For me, it beat wearing a tie and pretending to care about the equivalent of assistant managership of payday loan. I started being a contractor doing ghostwriting and built a shop from there and so forth.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:34 PM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
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Re: Staying quiet for money

Quote:
Originally Posted by Use Her Name
A good reminder. Thanks. Personally, I have not read the place in the constitution where your rights end when you walk into a workplace but it must exist if it is such an (unspoken) law.
It's not an unspoken law. Legally, you have no right to free speech in the workplace. Or to put it another way, you can express yourself and be fired legally:
https://www.americanbar.org/publicat...er-cooler.html
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:31 PM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

I never discuss politics or religion with collectors.
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Old 02-25-2018, 07:23 AM
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Re: Staying quiet for money

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Originally Posted by blondheim12
I never discuss politics or religion with collectors.

Nor do I. In fact I don't discuss politics with anyone, other than a few of my like minded, close friends. But I don't avoid it for monetary reasons. I simply loathe the entire political arena, and don't want the toxins and hate speech to leach into my life in any way, if at all possible.

If you have never posted anything politically slanted on facebook, try this fun experiment. Record how many facebook friends you currently have and how many people are following you, then post something really outrageous dealing with either side of the political freak show, then check in a few days and see if those numbers have changed.
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