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Old 02-08-2018, 12:25 PM
hypertex hypertex is online now
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Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

I read with great interest Dr. Briggs's website, especially this page that mentions a shading series. Here he describes a series of a colors with uniform saturation.

http://www.huevaluechroma.com/101.php

Dr. Briggs also plots a line of uniform saturation on a Munsell page. The line forms a diagonal line on the page. (Fig. 1.7.3)

http://www.huevaluechroma.com/017.php

But then I came across this painter's blog, where the artist matches the shading of a blue sphere to Munsell chips. His series of colors does not form a diagonal line on the Munsell page, but a curve instead. This same artist states in a Youtube video that he frequently encounters the curve on different objects.

http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/the-colour-of-shadows

I get that there could be some minor deviations from a line of uniform saturation, but I am surprised that it would form a curve. Curiously, the line curves in the lights, not the shadows. What accounts for this? Is it the lighting? Am I not understanding something?
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:04 PM
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KolinskyRed KolinskyRed is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

Hi,
Yep - still holds as a concept: From the most chromatic colour of the mid - tone before it begins in to the shadow (red box), the shadow side colours move along the "diagonal" for point source lighting, light quality strong and "cool". It's a concept to explore to avoid getting too dull too fast.



But, in the real set up can be different quality and quantity of lighting, and multiple directions, more diffuse etc. Again, a framework to consider to avoid going too dull too fast. Value does all the work? Well, here's an example that an integrated method is the key to success.

The credit for illustrating this as a concept goes to Munsell and his team, Munsell's colleague and friend Denman Ross, as well as more recently being focused in upon by the paper:
"Shadow Series in the Munsell System" by Paul Centore.

Look for citations, which are often missing.

It's only for one lighting set up, vary the light source(s) ~ vary the effect.

Cheers!

Last edited by KolinskyRed : 02-08-2018 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:49 PM
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Pinguino Pinguino is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

Both say essentially the same thing.

Look again at the Briggs page. You will see that the tops of the diagonal lines are at maximum chroma. But for any hue, maximum chroma is not at the lightest values. For an inherently light color such as yellow, maximum chroma is at a high brightness value. For purple, which is inherently a dark color, maximum chroma is at a low brightness value. For colors such as red, green, and blue, maximum chroma is somewhere in the mid-range of brightness value.

Now look again at the painter's blog page. You will see that the line is indeed diagonally down and to the left, from the point at which the hue reaches maximum chroma.

On that page, Briggs was discussing only how to keep chroma as high as you can, when a hue is darkened. The artist is discussing how to keep chroma as high as you can, when the hue is either lightened or darkened.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:17 PM
dlWood dlWood is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

I think Dr. Briggs is revamping his website because none of the links provided above work. I hope he brings it back online, seems very interesting from what has been posted.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:28 PM
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

I recall communicating with Dr. Briggs a few years ago, when his site was down. It's been awhile, but as I recall, his web site occupies space on a larger host that occasionally has problems. The problems, when they occur, as not directly within his control.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:01 AM
davidbriggs davidbriggs is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

Hypertex, this teaching slide explains what's going on. The colours presented by most objects are a combination of the diffuse reflection described by the diagonal shading series and the specular highlight, which generally retains the colour of the light source where it is strong, but generates a series of additive mixtures around its edges, especially if it is relatively fuzzy. This is also illustrated but not as clearly in my Figure 10.1.3 on the first page you cited.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:13 AM
davidbriggs davidbriggs is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

The diffuse reflection normally reaches its maximum chroma in the full light rather than the half light, unless there happens to be a lot of specular reflection in the former, and in a photo Paul provides in his article about this painting the image of the ball does in fact reach its maximum chroma in the full light.
http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/a-b...key-to-realism

It looks like Paul may not have been able to reach this maximum chroma with his paints as his painting has about the same chroma from the half-light to the full light. This could be expected as he uses the local colour of the ball to paint the half light, which could easily create problems in reaching the lighter and higher-chroma colour needed for the full light.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:31 AM
davidbriggs davidbriggs is offline
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

KolinskyRed is mistaken, the credit for illustrating the concept of shading series goes not to Munsell or Denman Ross but to Ross' student Arthur Pope, who is cited in the first paragraph of the first page linked to by Hypertex, and also elsewhere on my website including Figure 11.2.12 on this page:
http://www.huevaluechroma.com/112.php

Drawing attention to Pope's ideas about shading series was one of my main initial motivations for creating my site in 2007, at which time they seem to have been very largely forgotten.

--------------------------

Sorry if anyone has had trouble accessing the site. People seem to have visiting it at about the usual rate so I don't think there is any major problem.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:45 PM
hypertex hypertex is online now
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Re: Question about Dr. Briggs' shading series

I think what fooled me was the highlight. In the picture of the ball, the highlight still contains the local color, so I had mistaken it for full light. It seems that particular highlight has more "fringe" than anything else.

Thank you for all who responded. And thank you for your wonderful site, Dr. Briggs.
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