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Old 01-08-2018, 09:30 PM
MDerby MDerby is offline
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First indirect method attempt

MY IMAGE(S):





GENERAL INFORMATION:
Title: First indirect method attempt
Year Created:
Medium: Oil
Surface: Wood
Dimension: 22x24
Allow digital alterations?: Yes!

MY COMMENTS:
This is my first attempt to paint a portrait using the indirect method. I invite all feedback, and please do not worry about sparing my feelings. I know I don't know what I am doing so if you have some directive advice to offer, please do so. Everything I know about this technique was lea<br>ed on YouTube and is very rudimentary. I have painted many portraits over the last two years using the direct method and have posted several of them on the portraiture site.

MY QUESTIONS FOR THE GROUP:
I have begun with a rather warm, yet neutral base. I have added a cool grisaille. When I finish I plan to add a transparent bu<br>t umber and bu<br>t sienna dead layer. Then I plan to add a cool verdaccio layer, and finally, begin my glazes. Does this sound like the right sequence of steps? Is there anything else I should consider? What is wrong with what you see so far? Anything else you would like to offer is greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:36 PM
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La_ La_ is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

beyond my scope, MDerby, but it looks good thus far.

where's gaensanger (miss you man!) when we need him.

la
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:12 PM
MDerby MDerby is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Here is a little more progress. Let me know if you see anything I need to focus on. I think I have decided to skip the next warm step and go straight to the verdaccio, mostly because it appears I should have done it first, based on what I see other painters doing. I relied on the ground and hopefully that will provide the warm under cool effect I want. Let me know what you think.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:16 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

An now I wait for a couple of weeks so she can dry. I see several things I want to touch up then, but for now the paint is too tacky to be workable.
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:21 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Hello, I am not used to oils, so I will keep away from the technical part. On the image itself although, her ear lobe seems a bit weird.

The ear lobe keeps growing with age until our deaths so it naturally gives an impression of old age when it is as large as on this picture. The woman seems to be otherwise too young to have that wide ear lobe. On the reference she does have an ear lobe a bit large for her age, but on your image it is even larger. Usually when depicting a woman you want to make it look smaller than in the reference so the woman looks younger (most woman like when their images make them look younger).
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Old 01-15-2018, 09:17 AM
MDerby MDerby is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Thank you for commenting Tiago. I appreciate your feedback. I see what you are referring to and will work on that first. I left the lobe a little long and the strand of hair is a bit too far to our left. The hair is an important element here or I would not be so careful to reproduce it as closely as possible. It helps to shade and frame the face and runs all the way down to her shoulder.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:22 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Since I cannot decide how to proceed I am resorting to experimentation. This is scrap canvas taped to scrap plywood and stained with Geneva stain just like the subject painting. Next I added some grey scales so that I can try three different techniques for the application of dead layers, verdaccio, some combination thereof and glazes. This is all done with liquin so it will dry fast. The subject is still a little wet and must be dry to the touch before proceeding.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:47 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Here you see my experimentation. After it dries I will cover the green with the reds and the reds with the greens. Its a tossup between the tube sap green and the viridian olive mix for the next layer. I like the iron oxide and geneva red mix the best for the first color layer.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:48 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

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Old 01-23-2018, 08:49 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

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Old 01-24-2018, 08:59 AM
tiago.dagostini tiago.dagostini is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

What is your doubt/fear that leads you to such experimentations? I personally think you might have used a bit too saturated red since the original picture has a calm feeling on it.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:54 PM
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Re: First indirect method attempt

That's a great question. I actually pondered that some when I started this project and decided if I just botched it I could always paint over it alla prima. So no fear but plenty of doubt about the process and materials. That is I am experimenting. I have seen many videos where sap green is used but that is only semi-transparent. I have seen many videos where alizarin crimson is used but that is almost too transparent. I am also trying to get a feel for how much medium to use. I know I need to go easy early on and gradually add oil. Yuehua He starts with a more solvent rich mix and gradually reduces it. I don't like to use solvents so I hope to find something suitable. I won't use liquin or any other alkyd on the art work, only on test pieces. So you see there is a lot to figure out. Anyone else find the decision making process harder than painting?
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:37 PM
wdaniels wdaniels is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Hi Mike,
The nice thing about the indirect method is that once the the surface is completely dry, whatever you put on top can be easily wiped off if you don't like the result. And, as you said, you can always paint over a mistake that has dried. Keep that in mind and don't worry. Also don't be afraid to use earth colors. The first thing I do with portraits is to go over the underpainting of the face with a very thin glaze of burnt sienna, most of it wiped off so it just leaves a pinkish stain, but that's just me.

Last edited by wdaniels : 01-24-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:45 PM
wdaniels wdaniels is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

This is close to the approach I use, although I usually use a burnt umber toned underpainting rather than gray tones: http://www.penroseart.com/vermeer01.htm
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:00 PM
MDerby MDerby is offline
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Re: First indirect method attempt

Thanks Wayne. I have seen that website before and what you did there is terrific. I am glad you reminded me of it. I will study it again. I fixed her ear and experimented with burnt sienna tonight. I really like that color and will try your approach.
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