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Old 11-18-2017, 11:15 AM
janinep7 janinep7 is offline
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Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

In the never ending quest to mix up good darks, I'm thinking about Neutral Tint and if there is a compelling reason to use or not. As far as I understand the way it works, if you add it to a color it will darken it w/out skewing the hue. Right now, I've been using Payne's Gray in sort of the same way, but Payne's has a strong blue cast, so while it darkens, it also skews. Looking for input, opinions, experience specifically with Neutral Tint, and please add the brands you've used, liked/disliked and why.

Thanks!
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Old 11-18-2017, 11:29 AM
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virgil carter virgil carter is online now
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Neutral Tint is one of many "darkening neutrals". The role of a darkening neutral is to enable darker values of a paint than the paint's inherent value.

Neutral Tint has a violet bias. Payne's Gray has a blue-gray-black bias because it includes Lamp Black pigment, one of the most opaque elements on the face of the earth. In my judgment, PG is useful for value and notan studies, but not a very good paint for transparent watercolor painting due to the Lamp Black.

Other darkening neutrals include Perylene Maroon (red bias), Sepia (deep burnt orange bias), Indigo (blue bias), among others. Some folks like to use Burnt Sienna or Burnt Umber, but these grayed earth tones don't work well as a darkening neutral in my approach to painting.

FWIW, I recommend to my students that they find and keep a useful darkening neutral on the palette, regardless of palette composition. Just be cautious and check the pigment content to be sure Lamp Black is not included in the neutral of choice!

Hope this helps.

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Old 11-18-2017, 11:56 AM
briantmeyer briantmeyer is online now
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

I make a neutral pre-mix of :

Mostly Perelene Maroon
A small portion of Phthalo Green
Finally a bit of Phthalo Blue

Mix the red and green until it's neither green or red, but brown when you paint a test tint of it.
Drop in an even smaller amount of Pthalo blue, just a bit, this brings it to true neutral.

Note this is a dead color, kind of like ink, the reason I use it is because it is very hard getting a color perfectly neutral while painting, but easy to throw it in any direction.

Other colors can do the same thing, Perelene Green instead of Phthalo. Indrathrene Blue instead of Phthalo Blue. Basically it's an RGB mixture of darkening neutrals.

Also Diox Violet is very useful in mixing lively dark neutrals, it turns gray with both Phthalo Turquoise, and Phthalo Green. Mixing with yellows gives a nice tan. It does not mix like what you'd expect. Ultramarine Violet is similar but very very weak ( use it only with weak earthy colors as it gets overpowered easily )

The "Jane's" gray combo of Ultramarine Blue and Burnt Sienna is also very useful to have on your palette, I make a pan of it as well.
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Old 11-18-2017, 02:41 PM
Tanya B Tanya B is offline
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Quote:
Neutral Tint has a violet bias.

Yes, the version I have definitely does. I have M. Graham’s Neutral Tint which is a mixture of Phthalo Green (PG7) and a Quinacridone (PG19). It makes nice, transparent outdoor shadows and does a good job of darkening colors.

If you want a transparent, non-granulating dark black without a color bias, the best I’ve found is about a 1:1 mix of Perylene Green (PBk31) and Perylene Violet (PV29). I have this premixed in my palette. I like the perylenes because they are not super strong tinters unlike the amazingly powerful Phthalo Green and Dioxazine Violet and thus are easier for me to mix.
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Old 11-18-2017, 03:02 PM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Rather than using a convenience paint such Neutral Tint, neutralize you colour with its compliment. See this comprehensive handprint.com reference.
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Old 11-18-2017, 04:20 PM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Claude, the darkening neutrals do not "neutralize" a base color, as does mixing complementary colors. Using a pre-mixed or mixed darkening neutral retains the hue intensity or saturation. It simply creates a darker value hue than otherwise possible.

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Old 11-18-2017, 04:44 PM
Tanya B Tanya B is offline
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Quote:
I have M. Graham’s Neutral Tint which is a mixture of Phthalo Green (PG7) and a Quinacridone (PG19).

Oops, I meant PV19. I don't know which version (rose, red, or violet) of PV19 they use though.
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:19 PM
jyaan jyaan is offline
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

I prefer to use Ultramarine, Burnt Sienna Deep (PR101), a dark crimson (PR179 or PR264) and a Prussian/Phthalo Blue in various combinations, perhaps with some Nickel Azo Yellow added to adjust the hue. If I were to add a black to my palette I'd rather use Lamp Black instead of mixtures like Neutral Tint which seem something of a black for people in denial.

Last edited by jyaan : 11-18-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 11-18-2017, 07:54 PM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

I never use Neutral Tint myself. I enjoy making darks from the original color.
I especially enjoy adding Dioxazine Violet to a mix. Makes a wonderful darkest Evergreen. But it’s just part of the fun and discovery experimenting with color.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:55 PM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Since most of the so called "neutral" grays or tints are mixes of several other pigments, anyway, I see no reason to use them. I do have Payne's gray, but use it mostly in value painting studies. I already have lots of colors I can use to mix up neutrals I don't see a need to buy a pre-mixed tube of something I can make myself.
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Old 11-19-2017, 12:58 AM
Neeman Neeman is offline
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

I use Paynes grey as a blue for very dark foliage
.
To knock down a color I use the analogous not Tint
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:46 AM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Neutral Tint:

Daniel Smith - PBk6—Lamp Black; PV19—Quinacridone Violet; PR101—Red Iron Oxide
Holbein - PB23—Dioxazine Purple; PB29—Ultramarine [Blue]; PBk6—Lamp Black
M. Graham - PV19—Quinacridone Violet; PG7—Phthalo Green
Mijello Mission Gold - PBk7—Lamp Black; PB27—Prussian Blue; PR122—Quinacridone Magenta
Schminke - PB60—Indanthrene Blue; PBk7—Lamp Black; PR122—Quinacridone Magenta
Sennelier - PB60—Indanthrene Blue; PBk7—Lamp Black; PR209—Quinacridone Red
Winsor & Newton - PB15—Phthalo Blue; PBk6—Lamp Black; PV19—Quinacridone Violet
Da Vinci doesn't offer a neutral tint.

Don't buy it. Don't use it. If you really think about what you're using to supposedly darken your local colour, what you're really doing is mixing mud.

The better solution for me is to understand how to mix my neutrals that will be more effective and go a long way in maintaining colour harmony.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:57 AM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

So according to your list Char, my own dark mix is the M. Graham's mix of Neutral Tint.
The PV19—Quinacridone Violet; PG7—Phthalo Green.

I mix it my self and I prefer it because it doesn't contain black. Any paint that contains Lamp black looks dull in my opinion.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:17 AM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

Marialena, yes... I encourage all my Students to mix their own colour. These convenience colours make me crazy because Students are always trying to understand why their paintings become dull and muddy!

Paynes Grey

Da Vinci - PBk6—Lamp Black; PB27—Prussian Blue
Daniel Smith - PBk9—Ivory Black; PB29—Ultramarine [Blue]; PY42—Yellow Ochre
Holbein - PR83—Alizarin Crimson; PB27—Antwerp Blue; PB29—Ultramarine [Blue]; PBk7—Lamp Black
M. Graham - PBk6—Lamp Black; PB29—Ultramarine [Blue]
Mijello Mission Gold - PBk7—Lamp Black; PB15:3—Phthalo Blue; PV19—Quinacridone Violet
Schminke - PBk6—Lamp Black; PB15:6—Phthalo Blue; PB15:2—Phthalo Blue
Sennelier - PBk7—Lamp Black; PB15:1—Phthalo Blue; PV19—Quinacridone Violet
Winsor & Newton - PB15—Phthalo Blue; PV19—Quinacridone Violet; PBk6—Lamp Black

The only good reason to buy Paynes Grey would be to do monochromes. Otherwise, don't buy it. Don't use it.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:31 AM
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Re: Another colorista question - Neutral Tint

There seems to be a common misconception about "Darkening Neutrals", i.e., that the purpose of the paint and using it is to "neutralize" or "gray" a paint or a passage. That's not the case at all!

The purpose of a Darkening Neutral--whether one uses a pre-mixed paint or prefers to mix their own on their palette or on their paper--is simply to achieve darker value mixtures and passages than may be possible using normal paints with their inherent range of values.

Darker values is not the same as a "neutral mix or passage". A darker value retains intensity or saturation and simply moves to a darker value range.

On the other hand, a "neutral" or "grayed" mix or passage loses its intensity and saturation and becomes neutral or grayed.

I fully agree on the issues created by using Lamp Black.

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