WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Art Business Center > General Art Business > Legal Corner
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-05-2017, 08:12 PM
firebob firebob is offline
New Member
VA
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
 
Hails from United States
Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

I'm thinking about painting a series of paintings from pictures I have taken over the last 27 years of train cars, locomotives, and there graffiti. If I did paint them they would end up in a book and a part of them would have limited edition runs.

My understanding is the copyright on graffiti has not been upheld in a US court.
When I asked my lawyer he told me that anything that was done illegally is far use.

I wounder how others feel about this?
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-06-2017, 04:05 PM
theBongolian theBongolian is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 840
 
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

Have you taken pictures of Banksy graffiti, or Shepard Fairey graffiti - if so i would advise you to not put those in your book.

Having said that if I were you - i would go forward with the paintings. If you took a photo of a building with a coca-cola logo on it, then made a painting of it - is that copyright infringement?

Making a book, rather than a one-off painting further muddies the water.

There are a number of published books of graffiti on subway trains, etc.- I would contact the author and/or the publisher to get some help. And while I had the publisher on the phone I would pitch the book to him.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-06-2017, 08:36 PM
firebob firebob is offline
New Member
VA
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

It's been a long day and just sat down for the first time.

I got an email from a different lawyer and I was told not to do it.

The plan was to paint 90 to 100 paintings, put around 75 into a book, and do limited edition runs on most of the paintings.

Thanks theBongolian.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:50 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is online now
Enthusiast
Pawtucket, RI
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,297
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

You could always modify the graffiti. You could use the same style for the letters, different color, and different letters. In fact, it would be pretty fun to create your own. I thought of doing this with a photo I found online of some factory pipes that had graffiti on them. I intend to paint them with alchemical symbols "spray painted" on them instead.
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-07-2017, 09:57 AM
firebob firebob is offline
New Member
VA
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

I've been iffy about being able to create a market that would sell a few thousand books and a few thousand prints.

I think I'll put this idea on the back burner and move on to something different.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-07-2017, 08:52 PM
contumacious contumacious is offline
Lord of the Arts
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 2,002
 
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

Anyone who contested copyright ownership to your images because of their illegal graffiti being included in them might then be exposed to the owners of the railroad cars who could possibly have vandalism charges filed against them, and / or sue them for vandalism damages in court. The "artist" could end up being liable for many thousands of dollars of clean up costs.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-07-2017, 09:07 PM
firebob firebob is offline
New Member
VA
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

contumacious
That's the way I feel about it. The lawyer I use says the same, but one of his friends has a different opinion. I will come back to this idea for my next book.

I have around 300 35 mm negatives sorted out on river and surrounding landscapes that I'm going to start working on this week.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-22-2017, 07:34 PM
marksmomagain marksmomagain is offline
Veteran Member
western New York
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 562
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by contumacious
Anyone who contested copyright ownership to your images because of their illegal graffiti being included in them might then be exposed to the owners of the railroad cars who could possibly have vandalism charges filed against them, and / or sue them for vandalism damages in court. The "artist" could end up being liable for many thousands of dollars of clean up costs.


I would love to see this actually happen😁
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:32 PM
firebob firebob is offline
New Member
VA
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 10
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

After I finish this series of paintings I'm working on I want to do a series with train car graffiti. It will be hard to market, but in the long run with it's uniqueness I think in the long run it will sell.

I ended up spending a bit of cash to get more opinions on the legality. As long as the train car or cars are the primary object over the graffiti than there is no issue. As far as someone getting in trouble for the graffiti the statute of limitations would become a huge issue with proving what state it happened in.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:28 AM
Use Her Name's Avatar
Use Her Name Use Her Name is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
The Land of Enchantment
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,318
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

Grafitti could be classed as either "public art", or "vandalism" depending on who is doing the classifying. Painting a picture of an artwork is similar to painting a picture of a building, or a car. A building has a designer (architect) and so does a car, but in the public domain, they are seen as art in the same way that a tree or a mountain is seen as art.

I would be highly surprised that this would be an issue. You are merely painting what you see. I think it would be different if you were painting a picture or a train that was taken by someone else.
Reply With Quote
  #11   Report Bad Post  
Old 11-09-2017, 05:17 PM
TheCharmedStudio's Avatar
TheCharmedStudio TheCharmedStudio is offline
New Member
California
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

What is your lawyer's area of specialty? I think you would be best served consulting with a copyright lawyer who specializes in the arts and also someone in your state and/or the state the photos were taken in.
You have done so much work, to shelve it without due diligence would be a shame. Sounds like it would be an amazing book. Best of luck. Onwards!
Reply With Quote
  #12   Report Bad Post  
Old 01-07-2018, 07:40 AM
gmundy gmundy is offline
New Member
UK
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

interesting dilemma. ironic if the graffiti artist ignores the rail stock owners rights but gets a bit miffed when their dubious rights are infringed.
See if the rail companies would like to sponsor the book displaying their vandalised vehicles. They might like to know who protests
__________________
www.MundyART.co.uk
twitter @gavstweet

Reply With Quote
  #13   Report Bad Post  
Old 01-08-2018, 08:11 AM
hmshood5's Avatar
hmshood5 hmshood5 is offline
Senior Member
Wheeling, IL
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 449
 
Hails from United States
Re: Painting pictures of graffiti train cars?

I see many rail car graffiti artworks in my line of work (I'm an engineer for Canadian Pacific), and I have seen so many absolutely GORGEOUS pics on the cars. However, it's a dilemma with me, as it's also vandalism. But i think a book about the art would be a very interesting idea! Just PLEASE be safe when taking pics around the rails.

P.S. Don't acknowledge where you took the pics or on what line. There may be some legal trouble there (trespassing, contributing to the delinquency, etc.) and you may also want to blank out the car owners code or any corporate logos on the side of the car. Graffiti is a very sensitive topic for the railroads, and they may try to give you some legal hassles if the cars that they own are in a book.
__________________
"All of us get lost in the darkness... Dreamers learn to steer by the stars"
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.