WetCanvas
Home Member Services Content Areas Tools Info Center WC Partners Shop Help
Channels:
Search for:
in:

Welcome to the WetCanvas forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please visit our help center.

Go Back   WetCanvas > The Art Business Center > General Art Business > Internet Sales Strategies
User Name
Password
Register Mark Forums Read

Salute to our Partners
WC! Sponsors

Our Sponsors
Reply  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:00 AM
Jesse Waugh's Avatar
Jesse Waugh Jesse Waugh is offline
New Member
NYC / EU
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 28
 
Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Art sales site Arfinder is proud to openly discriminate against male artists. Search YouTube for "Standup to #ArtWorldSexism" or watch the video at https://youtu.be/0V6CslTKrBs for proof. They kicked me off of their platform claiming I hadn't uploaded sufficiently, but I now believe they deleted my account in order to increase the ratio of female to male artists, as my being male didn't suit their agenda. Such open discrimination can apparently only go one way. I made a video about my experience with Artfinder.com - search YouTube for "Artfinder - My Experience With Artfinder.com" or go to https://youtu.be/E_0wE2B2ado to watch video.
__________________
More about Jesse Waugh

Last edited by Jesse Waugh : 08-23-2017 at 08:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:33 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
Veteran Member
Pawtucket, RI
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 720
 
Hails from United States
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

If that were true, that would make artfinder the single art venue that promotes women over men. But to me it sounds like butthurt. Maybe just go and upload the stuff the way they want you to. You are wasting your time making videos and spamming around forums over this issue. If you looked at it from the perspective of your art being your business, you would not be doing this.

Unless your real job is making videos about butthurt and spamming for them.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2017, 06:45 AM
Jesse Waugh's Avatar
Jesse Waugh Jesse Waugh is offline
New Member
NYC / EU
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 28
 
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
If that were true, that would make artfinder the single art venue that promotes women over men. But to me it sounds like butthurt. Maybe just go and upload the stuff the way they want you to. You are wasting your time making videos and spamming around forums over this issue. If you looked at it from the perspective of your art being your business, you would not be doing this.

Unless your real job is making videos about butthurt and spamming for them.

Wow. SJW much? I had no idea people were capable of being video illiterate, but I guess it's a thing. Too bad too because I'd seen your post about Artfinder in another forum and checked out your website and really liked your art a lot. But I guess in this case the artist behind the art is just another destroyer.
__________________
More about Jesse Waugh
Reply With Quote
  #4   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2017, 08:44 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
Veteran Member
Pawtucket, RI
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 720
 
Hails from United States
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Destroyer? I have to say that makes me laugh out loud.

Thanks for looking at my art and liking it. Before I responded to your original post, I went to look at yours and found a bunch of words about how ugly should not be allowed in art. I actually consider the revelation of beauty to be very important in my own art. But I don't think that modern art is ugly or that it is an attack on civilization, like you apparently do.

Why would you want your stuff on there anyhow?
Reply With Quote
  #5   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2017, 08:51 AM
Jesse Waugh's Avatar
Jesse Waugh Jesse Waugh is offline
New Member
NYC / EU
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 28
 
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Roth
Destroyer? I have to say that makes me laugh out loud.

Thanks for looking at my art and liking it. Before I responded to your original post, I went to look at yours and found a bunch of words about how ugly should not be allowed in art. I actually consider the revelation of beauty to be very important in my own art. But I don't think that modern art is ugly or that it is an attack on civilization, like you apparently do.

Why would you want your stuff on there anyhow?

Why would I want my stuff on Artfinder? I don't. It's not the same site it originally was.

I'm very curious to know what you think - if Modern art wasn't an attack on civilization, then it was completely organic? Then what about this information: http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/201...pon-of-the-cia and http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...n-1578808.html
__________________
More about Jesse Waugh
Reply With Quote
  #6   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-24-2017, 09:16 AM
Harold Roth Harold Roth is offline
Veteran Member
Pawtucket, RI
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 720
 
Hails from United States
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

First, you haven't show any evidence whatsoever that artfinder discriminates against male artists. All you have done is SAY they do. So there's that. And that's what you put as the SUBJECT of your post.

Second, I don't know what the issue was with your uploads, but lots of sites now demand multiple shots of the same work. In addition to the main shot, they want at least one detail shot, a side shot, a shot of it on the wall, and two more. Although it's a PIA, I think that's actually a good idea because it gives the viewer a better idea of the work. It makes the site stickier as well (people stay on it longer because there is more to see, and the more stickiness, the higher the ranking in Google, and the higher the ranking, the more visitors). I have set myself the task of multiple photos of my works on my own site, but I know it's going to take me a while.

Thirty percent is not a big cut for galleries. Ugallery wants 50%. I think saatchiart is 35%. B&M galleries want 40-50%. I recently entered some stuff in a competition and I was so bothered by how much I had to raise my prices to account for their cut, which was 35%, that I decided I didn't want to sell in that sort of venue anymore. It was distorting my prices, IMO. But from what I have seen, 30% is not much compared to other sellers. Yes, I agree that it's wrong for them to take so much. But it's what they do and to be expected from them. They say they need it for what they do, but they don't do much. For example, after poking into saatchiart, which I thought would be a good venue, I decided that what they were asking me to do for them is what I should be doing for my own site. I took my paintings off there and have been working on promoting my own site instead since.

Yes, I know all about the CIA deliberately having modern art displayed in Europe. But that does not equate to an attack on civilization. The CIA does not have that much power. You want an attack on civilization, go look at Thomas Kinkaid or the art at Bed Bath & Beyond. Yes, I am being sarcastic. But I don't think that there is such a thing as an attack on civilization. No one has that much power or is that organized. And if some stupid rich people want to buy lousy paintings, I don't care. They are not my customers. They are looking for investments, not art. I want the buyers who are looking for art, regardless of whether it is beautiful or ugly.

I do indeed think modern art grew organically and still does out of our society. But our society is not a monolith and that's why we've got all kinds of art. And some of it sucks. I did a review of a painting book where for me, all but 8 of the 130 paintings were awful, IMO. But that doesn't mean that I should do like some artists have done and retreat to imitating Bouguereau or Fredric Church. The thing is that technique is not art. Technique can only be a tool of art, not its goal.

Last edited by Harold Roth : 08-24-2017 at 09:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:02 PM
IanBertram IanBertram is offline
Senior Member
Wiltshire, UK
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 365
 
Hails from United Kingdom
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

I stopped reading after SJW...
Reply With Quote
  #8   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:29 AM
caldwell.brobeck's Avatar
caldwell.brobeck caldwell.brobeck is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
Halifax, NS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,620
 
Hails from Canada
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

I hadn't heard of artfinder before, so I checked out their site. I wasn't particularly impressed, most of what I saw was rather meh, and priced accordingly.

I did, however, click on their "top selling artists" button, and the results were rather interesting, given what they said in their video. 7 out of 10 of their top selling artists were men (assuming Luca Palone, aka slasky, is a guy. Luca is usually a male name).

So I doubt they would actually make life difficult for a guy in order to balance their gender representation. Their 52/48 female-to-male ratio pretty much just reflects what's going on in art production in most places; last time I looked it was about that here in Canada.

I do think the 30% commission is high, considering how little they seem to do for the artist compared to a regular gallery. The people that run regular galleries, if they are successful, really work hard for their money. Here rates run from 35% to 50% or so, and my favourite local gallery is actually at the high end. I love going in it even if my work is not hanging.

As for the technical issues, that would certainly be a concern. I've seen too many sites ramp up the bells and whistles at the expense of content. I think it happens because site owners tend to believe more clicks equals more sales, but beyond a certain point I do believe it's self defeating. People seriously in the market for art tend want to find art, not entertainment and distraction. And there's an old adage in the stock market - when a company builds a new headquarters, it's time to sell the stock - maybe something like that might apply to webpages as well.

So my advice on that comes courtesy of Taylor Swift, Shake It Off (one of the few pop songs I actually like...) and get on with your art. You do interesting work. Not necessarily my cup of tea - I'm more interested in ideas of resonance and attention, as well as aesthetic cognitivism, than pulchritude - but to each hir own.

(Added on edit - I did think your youtube rant - if I can call it that - was actually quite polite. I just disagree with the gender bias bits. But I do appreciate people who don't try to bash me over the head with their thoughts, so thanks!).

Cheers;
Chris
__________________
C&C of all sorts always welcome! (I don't mind rude or harsh criticism.)
I suppose I have to do this too (my blog, & current work). My Visual Arts Nova Scotia page.
Art is the most intense mode of individualism that the world has known - Oscar Wilde
Look for yourself, think for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Then own them.

Last edited by caldwell.brobeck : 08-29-2017 at 12:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9   Report Bad Post  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:44 AM
JohnEmmett's Avatar
JohnEmmett JohnEmmett is offline
A WetCanvas! Patron Saint
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,019
 
Hails from United States
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Waugh
I'm very curious to know what you think - if Modern art wasn't an attack on civilization, then it was completely organic?

Modern art is just art that is modern.
__________________
Art requires philosophy, just as philosophy requires art. Otherwise, what would become of beauty? ―Paul Gauguin
Concision is the art and practice of using no more words than necessary to convey an idea.
JE

Last edited by JohnEmmett : 08-29-2017 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Report Bad Post  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:55 AM
Jesse Waugh's Avatar
Jesse Waugh Jesse Waugh is offline
New Member
NYC / EU
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 28
 
Re: Artfinder.com Openly Discriminates Against Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by caldwell.brobeck
I hadn't heard of artfinder before, so I checked out their site. I wasn't particularly impressed, most of what I saw was rather meh, and priced accordingly.

I did, however, click on their "top selling artists" button, and the results were rather interesting, given what they said in their video. 7 out of 10 of their top selling artists were men (assuming Luca Palone, aka slasky, is a guy. Luca is usually a male name).

So I doubt they would actually make life difficult for a guy in order to balance their gender representation. Their 52/48 female-to-male ratio pretty much just reflects what's going on in art production in most places; last time I looked it was about that here in Canada.

I do think the 30% commission is high, considering how little they seem to do for the artist compared to a regular gallery. The people that run regular galleries, if they are successful, really work hard for their money. Here rates run from 35% to 50% or so, and my favourite local gallery is actually at the high end. I love going in it even if my work is not hanging.

As for the technical issues, that would certainly be a concern. I've seen too many sites ramp up the bells and whistles at the expense of content. I think it happens because site owners tend to believe more clicks equals more sales, but beyond a certain point I do believe it's self defeating. People seriously in the market for art tend want to find art, not entertainment and distraction. And there's an old adage in the stock market - when a company builds a new headquarters, it's time to sell the stock - maybe something like that might apply to webpages as well.

So my advice on that comes courtesy of Taylor Swift, Shake It Off (one of the few pop songs I actually like...) and get on with your art. You do interesting work. Not necessarily my cup of tea - I'm more interested in ideas of resonance and attention, as well as aesthetic cognitivism, than pulchritude - but to each hir own.

(Added on edit - I did think your youtube rant - if I can call it that - was actually quite polite. I just disagree with the gender bias bits. But I do appreciate people who don't try to bash me over the head with their thoughts, so thanks!).

Cheers;
Chris

Thanks for the level-headed response. Regardless of some of the criticisms of my complaint in this thread, there remains no question that Artfinder openly discriminates *in favor* of women - just watch their video “Stand up to #artworldsexism” for incontrovertible proof. A well-known YouTuber just did a video discussing that exact Artfinder video and my Artfinder review video - here’s the URL: https://youtu.be/7EOeZ2YbJ7A
__________________
More about Jesse Waugh
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 AM.


© 2014 F+W All rights reserved.