Is there really a substitute for the cadmiums?

[css]

I'm basically working with a Prismatic Palette and was wondering if there really is a substitute for the cadmiums? specifically the yellows?

I've come close to finding a substitute for Cad Red and have added Indian Yellow as a warm yellow with good results. I don't think I'll ever find a replacement for Cad Orange.

I've tried Hansa Yellow & Azo yellow but they just don't give me what a Cad Yellow Light can.

Thoughts?

[Mares Rex]

I'm also replacing the cadmiums as I'm going for a non-toxic palette (easier on the environment). As a cadmium yellow substitue, I bought a tube of Chrome Yellow Hue (WN) today, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. I don't need an exact match though, I just need to ballpark it. I have a feeling Chrome Yellow isn't what you're looking for if you want a really close match, but anyway, I'll check back on this thread when I've tried it out.

[JamieWG]

It really depends on what your medium is and how you work. If it's opacity you're looking for in the cad yellow, nothing else is going to be as opaque and have that kind of chroma and tinting strength. It's a lot easier to make a substitution for cad red, since it's a darker color. The opacity isn't as big an issue.

Jamie

[css]

Good thoughts. I work in oil - alla prima and really only dilute color in the beginning washes. I try to mess with pigments as little as possible.

Ya the cad red is replaceable, it's just that yellow - I like having indian yellow as a warm yellow and really looking for just a primary yellow for mixes.

my next try is going to be Lefranc Yellow - http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discou...oil-colors.htm

[Mares Rex]

Originally Posted by css

I don't think I'll ever find a replacement for Cad Orange.

I tried out my new Winsor Orange (Pyrrole) today with disastrous results. Almost ruined my painting. Out of the tube it looks pretty close to cadmium orange, but when mixed with flesh hues it turned everything bright red instead of warm, glowy orange. I was pulling my hair trying to make it work, but gave up. I'm done with Winsor Orange.

Can anyone suggest another cad orange substitute I could try out? I'm determined to make this cadmium free palette work.

[Gigalot]

There are nothing better than cadmium. Its color and light fastness is beyond praise. Not fades, not darkens! You need more? I can only advise to use more iron oxides in order to save (a lot of) cadmium pigments.

[Patrick1]

I haven't done any side-by-side comparisons, but one of the best (possibly the closest) substitute for Cadmium yellows is Bismuth Yellow PY184:

http://www.winsornewton.com/resource...s-so-important

Among the brands, it can span the whole range from lemon to deep yellow.

[css]

Originally Posted by Gigalot

There are nothing better than cadmium. Its color and light fastness is beyond praise. Not fades, not darkens! You need more? I can only advise to use more iron oxides in order to save (a lot of) cadmium pigments.

I'm not doubting that the cads are the best - they are. Just for price and health I'm wondering what the best substitute is.

I'll never find a replacement for cad orange but I've been successful with my reds.

[Gigalot]

I am agree, cadmium is an expensive pigment.
Did you try Perinone Orange PO43?
http://www.dickblick.com/items/01558-3373/#colorswatch
Said to be Lightfast thing, but not an opaque, I guess.

Some hopes were also tied to the Benzimidazolone pigments - PY175 and PY154.

I have 1 tube PO13 benzidine orange. It has a good color but, unfortunately, fugitive. Both, PY3 and PO13 faded completely after one year sunlight exposed. Sometimes, I use them for underpainting only.

[sidbledsoe]

Originally Posted by Mares Rex

I was pulling my hair trying to make it work, but gave up.

add an orange leaning yellow to it like PY65, Winsor Newton Chrome Yellow Hue would also be good to add to get it to orange.

[Mares Rex]

Originally Posted by sidbledsoe

add an orange leaning yellow to it like PY65, Winsor Newton Chrome Yellow Hue would also be good to add to get it to orange.

Thanks Sid!

[Carcharhinus]

Posted this in oils too but PY3 mixed with PR170 is the closest thing I've seen to Cad Orange on my palette. I almost want to eat it.

[Horsa]

I work in watercolour. I would debate whether the cadmiums are actually "the best" but no other pigments act quite exactly like them.

I have found a few times when only the Cadmiums seem to do, despite my best efforts to find replacements. I have found pretty good replacements for the reds (which is good as I really don't care for cad reds), but nothing comes close to cad orange, and the yellows have that great opacity.

I do love working with the iron oxides and mineral pigments though, but at least in WC they seem quite different to the cadmiums.

[sidbledsoe]

Nothing will ever perform exactly the same as cadmiums especially in oils, so it really comes down to personal preferences and the importance of such to the user. I have no problem whatsoever replacing all of my cads with alternatives and actually find many attributes are better, but I understand that for others, they are not exactly the same and they will not have it and there is no replacing them whatsoever.

[Mikey]

Michael Harding's Oils Yellow Lakes are favourites of mine. They are inexpensive and very strong. Although transparent they are strong enough to be fairly opaque if necessary.