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  #46   Report Bad Post  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:55 PM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

i ask earlier queston someone i think says good basic set in this thread is cool and warm variations of each colour.
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:13 AM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

I found this idea nonworking maybe becouse i dont know set what goes this way. all have few greens on it. but not in this way.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:21 PM
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robertsloan2 robertsloan2 is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

I love this thread, every time I read it I learn something new. Oh yes, I'm tempted to get the 60 color Great American half stick set. Or one of the 72 color full sticks sets. Bad Robert, this is not the month to be tempted, not when I made a resolution not to buy art supplies till January.

I've got about 500 sticks in everything, I think, so really, I could hold off for a while and just open up more than one box.

JPQ, the only set that really works anywhere near that is the Mount Vision Chromatic Set. 25 pure color pastels in a medium softness, very big fat beautiful sticks, and you need to get a white one with it because white is not included. That doesn't give you tints, you have to mix all your tints using the white. So white will wear down faster. I didn't because I bought an extra Sennelier white a while back and using a softer white for mixing seems to help, especially for lightening over color.

I bought that after the last time I posted to this thread and would actually recommend that for a starting palette along with a big fat stick of white, because you'll use it a lot getting tints.

I've also bought the Richeson semi-hard pastels big set but it hasn't arrived yet, so I couldn't say how those are.

But part of what you get in starting out is finding out what texture of pastels you like best and work best with. They're all different. One thing I learned here in this forum is that while it's possible to narrow to one hardness or type of pastels and really explore its potential, it's also fantastic to be able to use hard pastels first and gradually layer softer and softer ones over them to do a painting that can hold more layers.

So one thing I'd recommend to a beginner is to try one of the samplers from DakotaPastels -- and for doing florals and landscapes, the Greens one is a good choice to back up a medium-softness chromatic array. I do landscapes a lot and never have enough greens. In florals there's always foliage. The color I don't have and wish I did is almost always some shade of green, as long as I have both warm (orangy) and cool (purplish) pinks for the flowers with strong intensity.

Finding out what hardness works best for your own hand is something that a sampler of one of each of a bunch of different brands can help with. But in landscapes the sticks that wear down fastest are the blue and green ones. Skies and water chew up blues fast too over large areas.

The sticks in warm colors don't wear down as fast unless you do a lot of sunsets. In sheer area, the greens and blues wear out fast, also the darks do sometimes. But it takes some practice to find out which darks vanish like you're eating candy. Other darks only come into little accents and once you buy it, a stick is almost a lifetime supply.

So if you want to really hedge your bets, look for a moderately priced set that's chromatic and then try the Greens sampler to test the brands and know where to go from there if you like the medium.

I've got a beautiful set of 60 vintage Rembrandts that got passed down through oil painter after oil painter until an oil painter friend gave it to me because he didn't like the medium. I love it and use it so often. So the 45 Rembrandt half-stick set might be a fairly inexpensive way to get a good number of colors to try and feel out what you need, or look for Art Spectrum on sale.

ASW may still have the Art Spectrum Pure Tones set on super deep discount for $89 or something. I have been debating on that for a while because it's all their pure-pigment colors and a handful of favorites in a 60 color set at ludicrous cheap per-stick clearance price.

Sometimes the best way to get a lot fast is to look for what's on clearance, compare price with what you'd pay for it normally and get that to start with. I did that with colored pencils a couple of times and have never regretted it. I wind up with colors I don't use over large areas that look as if they've never been touched but when I look back at what I painted, I find out that I did use them -- on several different paintings, one stroke each or something.

There is a reason some of the super professionals here have 2,000 or more sticks. It's because you can find something useful to do with any color you get your hands on, be that the weirdest mid-tint brown or something. If you have it, you will find the painting where that's exactly the perfect stick even if you only need one stroke of it. That might be the exact hue and value of the anther on the sunlit flower. A whole stick used just to do one really tiny detail, but it stands out and makes that painting work.

So I don't fear having colors I won't use any more. I found out they wear down much more on how large an area they usually get used for. The full spectrum is necessary in brights for florals. Some earth tones really help for convenience doing cats and animals, that's where things like Naples Yellow, red iron oxides, sepias, assorted dark to light beige browns that lean yellower or redder or grayer are a lot of fun.

Golds and browns are also important for a full value range on yellow flowers and yellow objects. A good gold color, a good reddish brown, a good super dark brown and a really dark green are important in the minimal range, especially if you're trying to avoid using black.

However, black and yellow mix to a beautiful olive green in most mediums so you can always get olive green if you need it and have black.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:30 PM
wiiawiwb wiiawiwb is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

I'm Lost. Get me in the deep forest and I can survive, alone for days, with nothing but the clothes on my back. Get me in front of a canvas and I'm lost. No idea how to move forward.

Instinct tells me to get a full set of something. If that's not financially possible then what? I can tell you whose awesome pastels I'd buy if money were no object, but, money is an object.

I'd love to see how the really talented among us, and there and many of those, would start out with a limited budget to buy everything you needed, say $1,000.

What would you buy?
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:15 AM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

I have few (3) rembrands i dont like them hues are usefull but somehow i think these are little weak when i compare my other pastels
and like more w&n (i think 21),Schmincke,
(3) and handmade ones (17). i now found best stuff to me is w&n for background and schimcke for foreground plus handmade ones for background but mainly prussian blue (softer than phtalo blue tint 4 in w&n or easier cover big area easily there is maybe other factors than smoothess i dont mean size type stuff...) and two oranges,turquoise,and yellow green and some others what i cannot get otherway and when i like single pigment hues... i need maybe mostly few dark hues for background (mainly greens) and few lights (magenta and orange light shade for example),and greys and foreground much more... but i found even Schmincke which is softest what i can get is maybe my favorite. i dont like harder side almost all and these hardest dont look anyway these pastel works what i have one book and so many posted here is amazing so hard pastels can be used such smooth looking works. and i think i can made these background and details i know harder pastels are slower used (i know this way i can get in theory only two layers..)... but there is maybe months when i can order more and i think order Schmincke stuff if i can choose only one based pastels what i have my choice are these... but soon i can practce more mixing.
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Old 12-07-2009, 05:28 PM
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Phil Bates Phil Bates is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiawiwb
I'm Lost....I'd love to see how the really talented among us, and there and many of those, would start out with a limited budget to buy everything you needed, say $1,000.

What would you buy?

Full Set of Mount Vision $589
Girault Gray $170
Senellier Darks $69
Art Spectrum Lightest Lights: $16
Ludwig Intense Darks II: $72
Ludwing Intense Darks I: $72

Total (Dakota prices) $988

Notes: I like full set of Giraults ($880), but MVs are cheaper. FaberCastel Full set would be a great addition, around $160. Also, Great American McKinley landscapes: $200.

Phil
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:27 PM
wiiawiwb wiiawiwb is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

Thanks Phil!!!
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:59 AM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

Now tested my Rembrands more now i think i can use even them but some hues in some brands are almost unsable and some are unusable oddly my w&n chromium oxide green tint 4 is soft other end and harder in other end. and i of course (i mean of course becouse i like mostly my schimcke) like smooth end. and maybe i dont know but when order Rembrands more if these are enough smooth for backgrounds. even there is some areas in missing palette but not so much i mean when almost all in here know how limited are kids drawing products are when we talk only palette other factors are own story.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:05 AM
Phil Coleman Phil Coleman is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

''my w&n chromium oxide green tint 4 is soft other end and harder in other end''

If only others within the W&N range was like this, then we would have dual purpose sticks. One brand covering all our requirements!
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:04 PM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Coleman
''my w&n chromium oxide green tint 4 is soft other end and harder in other end''

If only others within the W&N range was like this, then we would have dual purpose sticks. One brand covering all our requirements!

I almost sure this is mistake and smoother end is correct one at least must say other end is too hard almost all uses at least non sanded? paper what i yet used becouse i dont even know where in there i can get but i almost sure not anywhere.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:16 PM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

Hardest hues in Talens Rembrant soft pastels ? i have few i say almost unworkable hard soft pastels these are is not Rembrands but if there is harder than hues what i now list i dont want them:
633.9 Perm. Yellowish Green
633.5 Perm. Yellowish Green
618.5 Perm. Green Light
i dont have yet others and now i want know if i never want more this stuff. i cannot buy stuff what i dont like becouse is too hard sell them if stuff is just not for me.
Few (at least two nice reds) gives very ugly marks to paper.
ps. if hardeness is big problem (=hues what i mainly need are hard) i going use mainly only Schimcke pastels. and maybe few handmades for some stuff.
(hardest handmade what i know becouse harder than these W&N,Talens stuff what i own mainly and these are harder than most hand made what we know if i understand correctly)
i post this to this thread becouse you (=all mean other people in here) recommend it if understand correctly ?
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:53 AM
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

I guess that it would depend on the subject itself. If it's one of those super detailed, fifteen colors per square inch kind of things, I guess the question would be whether to simplify the sucker or go all out. I do have 30+ pastels in my collection but I normally wouldn't use that many on a piece as I'm still a n00b and am afraid of muddying up a piece.
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Old 12-29-2009, 12:29 PM
JPQ JPQ is offline
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Re: How many soft pastels are minium usefull for landscapes and flowers ?

i now thinking half size rembrand set. becouse in these i can get lightfastness info what i yet not have for Conte and i think price going be about same. and some softer stuff for last layers.

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