Mars Black vs. Ivory Black

[artc]

Hello...
Sure would appreciate some help here.
As far as oil paints go....
What is this color called Mars Black??
What is the difference between Mars Black and Ivory Black??
Any help would be great.
thanks....art

[rltromble]

Basically Mars black dries faster then ivory and usually dries matte.

[DaveMak]

Also, Mars Black is a warm black and ivory black is a cooler black.

If you tint out Mars black you'll get a warm gray while Ivory will produce a somewhat cooler warm gray but it will also depend on what white you use to tint with.

Here's a link with more info:

http://www.gamblincolors.com/artists...cks/index.html

[Einion]

Ivory Black (PBk9) used to be made from charred ivory but is now just a marketing name for Bone Black; its colour varies a little but it can have a slightly brownish undercolour and will produce tints that are more neutral as a result.

Mars Black (PBk11) is an iron pigment, same family as the synthetic iron oxides; its colour varies a bit but it doesn't generally produce 'warm' greys.

As DaveMak mentions, which white is used has some bearing on what the tints of either will look like.

Since Dick Blick now have swatches for nearly all the paints on offer (as well as a second tab giving the pigment or pigments used) it's easy to see the variation in different versions by checking each of these from different makers. Compare the Gamblin version of Mars Black with their version of Ivory Black for example, should be easy to see how much more blue the tints of the former are.

Artie, there are a number of older threads where the common black and white pigments were asked about, here and in Oil Painting if you want to look up a bit more. If you work in layers, one thing mentioned in a few of them is that Mars Black is the leanest of the common black paints, the others being much more oily, so PBk11 is arguably a better choice for underpainting while any of the oilier ones would be better suited to upper layers.

Einion

[artc]

Thank you all for your help.
I did some research last night...
Mars black is supposed to be much more powerfull in
tinting strength....and less prone to cracking than I. Black
I dug out my large tube of Winton Ivory Black...I ain't happy
with it.....very oily.
I'm going to try mixing my own black....I want to make a value
chart and post it in my paintbox...I need all the help I can get with values.
Thank you for the links...much appreciated
Have a nice day....art

[mickeyw3340]

Originally Posted by artc

.
I'm going to try mixing my own black....art

Try a mixture of Burnt Sienna and Ultramarine Blue.

[sidbledsoe]

Originally Posted by artc

Mars black is supposed to be much more powerfull in
tinting strength

About three times the tinting strength of ivory. Not as black as ivory. Hold a magnet up to a tube of grumbacher academy mars black and then hold it next to a tube of Winsor newton artists grade mars black and you can feel the difference in pigment load by the degree of magnetic force involved.
Here a high pigment load can be a negative aspect. Black is one of the most feared pigments. Many have trouble with it and cite the dirtying, muddying nature that it has, yeah, it is black, and sometimes mud is just what you want. So with three times the power, mars can be even harder to handle than ivory. I know some artists who prefer the lower pigment load and tinting strength of winton ivory black. I feel this way about other pigments as well, for instance, I really like winton prussian blue due to the pigment load and my ability to handle it. I won't even try out a tube of Old Holland prussian blue, however, when it comes to other pigments like say yellow ochre, then bring it on because I can handle the highest pigment load there is.

[artc]

Thank you both Sidbledsoe amd Mickey
Well inthe B/w value studies that I want to do
the black is graded?? down to 7 or 8 different values
....so I'd guess it has to be pretty strong to start with.

Mickey...thank you yes...U. Blue + Burnt Sienna + dab A. Crimson
+ dab Viridian...and maybe this time I will throw in some Williamsburg
Burnt Umber for good luck.

thanks....art

[gunzorro]

Art -- This thread explains in detail the different qualities of Mars Black, Ivory Black and Lamp (carbon) Black (with photos), as well as the method for making a proper set of Munsell neutral greys.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...grey+Mun sell

[artc]

Valuable info in that thread...thank you
Today I am going to make another attempt
to find my Munsell value scale...if
I can't find it...I have no idea what I'm
going to use for references.

thanks...art

[gunzorro]

Art -- It is best to have a reference, but. . . people have been oil painting without much scientific reference for hundreds of years.

The main thing to keep in mind is that black plus white tends to be bluish, so you need to add Burnt Umber and/or Burnt Sienna to make it truly neutral.

And -- you don't have to be exactly neutral. It just helps, especially if you are going through the trouble to tube up a set of greys. But for normal palette mixing, close enough is often good enough.

[artc]

Thanks Jim.....
I mixed up a golf ball size pile of black last night using my
student grade oils that I had put away years ago.

Started with UM Blue and Burnt Sienna....added Burnt Umber
and Ivory black as needed....painted many swatches on white
paper....The book I'm studying says use a warm grey....so I left
the mixture slightly warm......right now, I'm the process of painting
and matching large swatches that I can use in my value
studies. Thanks for your help....art