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Old 02-10-2004, 05:51 AM
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angelina74 angelina74 is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Count me in too!!! I have been waiting to see how long it would take my fellow beadmakers to have enough of it. Too many beautiful pieces going at horribly low prices...
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:11 AM
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Isrin Isrin is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

I have not sold on ebay yet, but I am in. I sold at my first show in the fall and a store owner purchased a few sets from me. She has them for double the price on her site! I guess my prices were a deal Live and learn.

I with you 100%

Erin
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:24 AM
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Anne Londez Anne Londez is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

I totally agree I'm off to up my jewelry and bead prices in my shop
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:32 AM
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nursekatie nursekatie is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

I am in.....as long as you don't shoot me for listing some 99 cent specials on Sunday night.......I won't do it again....I promise.....I just had enough......they didn't sell...so I thought....fine....then you tell me what you think they are worth!!!

<----walks away...hanging head...kicking the dirt.....sorry comrades.....
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:23 AM
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cankeep cankeep is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Viva La Revolution!!

Every time I see beautifully made beads selling for a ridiculously low price it makes my stomach churn. The terribly low prices people are selling beads for on eBay devalue the work of the entire bead community!
I always send off a silent cheer (or sometimes not so silent) when I see a nicely made bead or set selling for what they're truly worth. It's like it raises the value of all of us bead makers (dare I say...bead artists??)

Now where did I leave my beret?
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:30 AM
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MeijhanaKittie MeijhanaKittie is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Yeah!



It takes one step!

mary
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Old 02-10-2004, 09:33 AM
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dillingham dillingham is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Ok Rita, I would like to order my uniform, do they come in XX sizes, and how about color, I like a fern green, and about the beret, could we go with a backwards baseball cap thing. It kind of makes a statement.

Seriously, count me in, I don't do .99 auctions, it really upsets me to see what people value their work at! I love eBay and firmly believe it is the best game in town. However, I sill should up my prices on some of my sets. Plus, I like working on my Hot Head!!!!!!!! You got me with those words. Everytime I get ready to order my minor, I think of all the stringer work and learning it all over again. Maybe next month!

Just whipser about this, don't want the goverment to call this price fixing, or have them trying to break up the liberation for cornering the market, remember Bill Gates!!!

Dilly
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:05 AM
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AutumnH AutumnH is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!



I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the precieved value. A gift with purchase (or even a purchase with purchase --but this and you can buy that for x.xx) gives the buyer a feeling of getting more for their money. But a "bargain" implies it's worth less.

I work at a yarn/fiber arts shop. We never have sales. If we did there would be people who would only shop the discount rack, or would not buy in the hopes that it would go on sale soon. What we are considering is having a once-a-year sale. Our slowest month of the year, we'll discount any yarns that are discontinued, or there are only a few left and we won't get it anymore, or that just never sell. As a bonus, by invitation only, the better customers will get to come in a day early to shop. And when that week is over, then there will be nothing marked down for another year.

I haven't sold on Ebay. I'm still in practice mode. I love getting good deals on beads. And to those I've bought from and gotten great prices due to slow sales on ebay, know that I value your beads. I'm thrilled that I got such a great price, but I know the value of what I bought and I KNOW that by all rights it should have sold for more than I could afford right now. But Jenny Jewelry maker (generally speaking) will see that she got this bead for $10.00 or that set for $12.00 and from that point on see anything that costs more than that as overpriced.

I agree with what Rita said, we need to educate our buyers. They need to know the difference between the beads at a bargain craft store and our artwork. They need to know the steps involved. They need to know this is artwork, not just Bucket 'O Beads that we are charging too much for.

Now for my part, I will try to live up to the manifesto. But some of the pedestals I have are pretty high, and I still think I make "practice beads." But I do know that thanks to all of you I have high standards for myself. I have seen lampworked beads made by people locally that I wouldn't let get past my front door. So personally I will add a few for my own submanifesto:

A. I want my work to be art, not simply production.
B. I want to look at my beads and be proud that someone got them and a little sad I had to let them go.
C. I will not offer beads where there are stuttered dots, or have chill marks, or do not clean my bead release properly.
D. I will not offer things that I wouldn't show off here with pride.
E. I will continue to study the work of others, read books and tutorials, and strive to increase my knowledge so that I can grow as an artist, and not stop until I'm comfortable with calling myself an artist. And then I will strive to grow more.

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Old 02-10-2004, 10:40 AM
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earthenwood earthenwood is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Rita,
I love this idea, and I love your sense of humour!

I have never sold on Ebay. But I do fear that the proliferation of cheap artist made beads will have an effect on me. I am recently self employed, and bead making (along with making some other handmade items) is my sole income. My husband is a self employed artist as well, and we are both affected by artists not being compensated for what they may be worth.

I sell my beads mostly at shows, retail and wholesale, as well as my catalog. I have to price so that I can give wholesale discounts to legitimate stores and designers, while many on Ebay are selling at lower than wholesale prices directly to the retail customer. It confuses customers about the value of artist beads and wholesale/retail prices in general. Both wholesale and retail buyers are equally important to my business, and I could not lose either and survive.

I have found that most of my customers do appreciate what I do and are willing to pay the prices that I have calculated. Many of my customers also enjoy bead shows and buying items they can touch over buying artist made items on line, in auctions. I think that some don't want to play the auction game (I am one of them) and would rather pay a reasonable price without having to bid. Also, I think they enjoy the social atmosphere of a bead show. My fear is that the Ebay beads will get so cheap, that they will have no reason to pay the fair price when they can get cheap goods. It is an issue of pride in our work, I believe. I do not try to price cheap, but there is a trickle down effect, needing to price within what the market will bear, and it becomes a very difficult issue.

I am not a glass bead maker, but I am a bead maker, and the issues in the glass world have a direct effect on me. I would love to discuss this further, so count me in!
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:55 AM
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DonnaBee DonnaBee is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

This is irrisistable! I am sure that at some point I have gone on and on writing on the internet that I want to start my beads cheap on ebay. But I want to join this now!

Maybe it was the poster, maybe it is Rita, or maybe it is just an idea whose time has come for me. Count me in!

I will try and list some expensive beads by the end of the year. I used to have the ebay store, where you can leave stuff sit there that doesn't sell. I will maybe do this again. The bead will sell sooner or later at a fair price I set. I'll make it a retail price since I am paying the extra fees of the ebay store. Heck, why not. I have been learning about beadmaking and practicing for three years. My beads are properly annealed and all that. They are worth a lot of money!

I hope I remember I said this in a few months. Someone email me if I don't. (Oh crap...)
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:57 AM
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Griffin Dove Griffin Dove is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritabead
12. I will not post auctions starting at 0.99 cents


Just some thoughts: During my pitiful 13 auctions on ebay a couple of years ago I posted my beads, and realized when all was said and done that I actually made 1/2 for them. Why? There's another thread on the subject re the actual costs of ebay. If and when I go back to ebay...I have no clue how to handle this as the prices I was charging were what I considered fair, representative of my work, and in line with professional rates of my experience.

Second, I think there is a tremendous value to people putting up beads for 99 cents. It is not something I would do, because I am not willing to sell for 99 cents...however, I remember when I bought four gnarly beads for $5 before I knew what beadmaking was about. I remember how expensive and how beautiful I thought the beads were. I remember gulping when I bought my first $30 bead 7 years ago from Kevin O'Grady. Today I don't bat an eye when I see a bead priced above $100. The pricing structure was part of my education, and I guarantee you I would never have gotten to the $100 range if I hadn't made the jumps from $5.

I think your manifesto is well written and applaud its bravado but I'm glad there are beads out there for 99 cents....I need the audience they create. One bead leads to a better bead....creates desire for another bead...and another...

Deanna
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:05 AM
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MeijhanaKittie MeijhanaKittie is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnaBee
I will try and list some expensive beads by the end of the year. I used to have the ebay store, where you can leave stuff sit there that doesn't sell. I will maybe do this again. The bead will sell sooner or later at a fair price I set. I'll make it a retail price since I am paying the extra fees of the ebay store. Heck, why not. I have been learning about beadmaking and practicing for three years. My beads are properly annealed and all that. They are worth a lot of money!

Why not try the justbeads? free relists, and you could let it "sit". Or try it for one or two times in eBay, then move it over.

I don't know the fees or the "sitting time" at eBay, but if we look into alternative methods, and then point our people to them, perhaps we can develop more sources than eBay. And support those who are trying to create alternatives (i.e. JustBeads and HandcraftedJewelry.com)

Mary
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:10 AM
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DonnaBee DonnaBee is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Mary, I sure will do the Justbeads thing! Absolutely.

I have to go to the site, and read up, and sign up, all that.

Thanks for that reminder. How many times can you relist for free? Heck, I will do that.

Heck, is that my word of the day? Heck, Heck.
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:15 AM
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ritabead ritabead is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

Deanna,
Hmmm... that is a good point. I have thought about it and here is what I think. I believe in what I call "first sight" This is what we all had when we first encountered lampworked beads. We have all had an experience where we bought or made an exquisite bead and now look back with a discerning eye and say, "what the heck was I thinking? The great thing is that those low price beads still had the power to bring us further down the road of bead collectors and/or makers. I guess what I am trying to say is that when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide. I am definitely not trying to eradicate the 99 cent beads. Because there will always be a market for them and there will always be people who post them regardless. I do think as a community though it is okay to effect an economical change to reflect the actual beads being sold. Eventually those buyers will do as we have and say (in my case) well that Stevi Belle amphora is $75 and damned worth it! Then buy it and have no regret whatsoever. I have several of your gorgeous beads and cherish them, even though at the time I thought $45 or $65 was alot. Now I would buy your Kaleidoscopes for $125. But it didn't take me long to get to that point once I understand what was going on with the lampwork process.
Once again the whole coup relies on a beadmaker being honest with themselves in what they should be charging and definitely not being greedy. I have to admit I would like the ability to put a $300.00 necklace up and actually have it go because the buying community understands it's value. Which comes down to education working hand in hand with marketing and product reliability. Okay, that is a whole nuther' thread.
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:15 AM
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xoticbead xoticbead is offline
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Re: Beadmakers Liberation Front!!!! Join up!!!

I'm all for this. As a community we have an obligation to set a standard. I do have one question or comment. Would it be possiable to eventually come up with a list or guideline for priceing our work. To be honnest I don't/ won't/can't. keep track of haow many min. it takes me to make a bead,Then there is the problem of glass, some of it cost more than others. If someone could come up with a list say something like this
size + complexity = $$$
8 mm spacers = $$$
20 x 10 bicone = $$$
I know I am very gulity of underpriceing my work but only because I really don't know what to start it out at.
Others have asked the question before and the general answear is $1.00 per min. but for someone like me who doesn't want to watch a clock when working at the torch that really isn't much of a help.
Liz
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