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Old 05-09-2012, 06:54 PM
netta13542 netta13542 is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Here is my tv and tissue box redo and I also did the practice page from the book.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:25 PM
erreabea erreabea is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Good day Arnoud, I am back to class, I really missed it.
These are some of my exercises: The exercise 1 that is to look at something from different eye levels. i chose a stool, the fist two sights were using 2PP and very low Eye level lying down on the floor; one with the vanishing points further away each other, and the other closer. The effect is dramatic, the second one looks closer like if you are almost under it.

Then, I sat and had an upper eye level (I also used the 2PP diagonal view)this is the third drawing.

The fourth drawing was a 3PP standing close to the stool and with the highest eye level.

Using ruler is much easier, but i didn't know how to measure properly on the diagonals and how to change the height, i just guessed. I also want to know when i must choose a 3PP in situations like this. only with really close things at higher and lower distance from the eye level?
Thank you for your comments

Andrés
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:00 PM
erreabea erreabea is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hello Arnoud. This is the exercise 2, boxes (in this case cubes) with central perspective and different distances and positions. I found this 90° circle of view technique that is very useful to draw perfect cubes even with rotated, but the size of the circle confuses me, because it is related to the "station point" that i understand is the ground surface ¿ ?

And also, that this 1PP has limitations and distort the solids outside the circle of view. so I change the dimensions of the circle (in blue) and i found that all sizes change (the cube looses depth) it seems like it is further away. although the size makes it look closer. I am confused with the distance since not all the biggest are the closest.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:42 AM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Netta - OK, please move on to class 3 .
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:59 AM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Andrés - Oh oh, this is on a far higher level than required for this basic class . Well done indeed .
Quote:
I also want to know when i must choose a 3PP
Two answers:
-- if you work for illustration, cartoons, comics, you use it for everything big and high. Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.
-- the traditional point of view is that vertical lines stay vertical, unless the artist chooses 3PP for its dramatic effect, well-known example is the holy cross painting by Dali.

Quote:
the size of the circle confuses me, because it is related to the "station point"
The size of the circle is proportional to the distance between the observer and the object. (The station point is where the observer stands). Naturally, the foreshortening becomes more pronounced when you increase that distance.

Please move on to class 3 .
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:07 AM
erreabea erreabea is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hello Arnoud. thank you for the answers, but I did not get what you meant by
Quote:
Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.
I thought that the problem of the camera pictures was that when they are used too close to the object the picture has proportion problems, not that the type of camera could be the reason.

On the other hand, I did the other exercises for this class and I wanted to post them before moving on to class 3, because I spent some time doing them and, by the way, I have other questions about them. (I am sorry to bother you with so many questions)


In the exercise of the four boxes in different positions, I tried to make two drawings with different eye levels of the same arrangement but the second one with higher horizon looks distorted because I don´t get how to measure the depth properly and finally I get something deeper than what it was expected, for example the book looks totally strange, that also happened in the drawing of the television.

Besides, I struggle to know how these boxes can be rotated. How I change their position moving the VP's to rotate them without distort them. because at first I thought that to turn the box to the left I should move the VP's together to the left the same distance on the horizon line, but it didn't work. Then, I thought that I have to keep the angle but it involves angle rulers and it becomes intricate, so, How can I do that?

About the guest lecture series, I was trying the exercise of the archs and columns in sequence and I wonder if one can use in drawings like this both types of linear perspective (1PP and 2PP) in the same picture, like a panorama view.

As you can see above, I did a set of columns and the left side has a very close vanishing point that can turn into the VP of a 1PP and if going further to the left, that point could be the right vanishing point of a 2PP of the sequence continuing to the left. Can this be done? Although I know that central perspective must have the beams and floor parallel to the horizon line, could the diagonals of both 2PP sides intercept in that central point view and somehow become one parallel line for a 1PP?

Again, thank you for your time and comments.

Andrés
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:04 PM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Andrés - Good job, you're very dedicated .
Quote:
I did not get what you meant by
Quote:
Also if you like to please the general public, accustomed to the distortions of non-professional cameras.

I thought that the problem of the camera pictures was that when they are used too close to the object the picture has proportion problems, not that the type of camera could be the reason.
I answered your question about 3PP. Look at any amateur photo of a tower - and sadly more and more professionals as well - and it is in 3PP. But the traditional opinion is that vertical lines should be drawn/painted vertically. Professional cameras have special adjustments to put the perspective right. Of course, in the digital era you corrrect it afterwards in Photoshop or GIMP.
Quote:
I don´t get how to measure the depth properly and finally I get something deeper than what it was expected
How to construct the depth accurately is very complcated geometrics, but why should you as an artist? use your artistic feeling. You said it was deeper than you felt it should be, shorten it - the VL's to the other VP will shift, that is all .
Quote:
I thought that to turn the box to the left I should move the VP's together to the left the same distance on the horizon line, but it didn't work.
Definitely not, as you saw. The far VP is moving faster away than the near VP moves to the center. How much? as above, draw a pleasing picture. I guess you forget one of the advices from the beginning of the thread: draw first, only check with perspective, don't use perspective to construct. This is basic perspective, remember? Only architects construct a 3D drawing geometrically from plan and elevation.

Quote:
I wonder if one can use in drawings like this both types of linear perspective (1PP and 2PP) in the same picture
Forget the terms 1PP, 2PP, these are mathematical concepts. Never apply them to a picture. Far better:
-- for "lines" read "horizontal lines" --
A. parallel lines "in the plane of the paper" do not converge
B. lines "perpendicular to the paper" converge to the (single) main VP
C. other sets of parallel lines converge also to a VP, left or right of the principal VP, but on the same level, called the EyeLevel aka horizon. Each set of lines has its own VP, and remember, they can come from different objects.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hi Arnoud, couldn't do any homework, as I was busy at my college. But I've been driving everyone crazy at home by drawing boxes on any paper lying around. Hope I've got it right this time! It is more difficult than it looks, really!
Anyway here are my boxes again. The pictures came out at an angle, I'm not a good photographer, so I had to adjust the base line. Hope I pass this time!! Prabha
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Prabha - Good job, very well done .
Please move on to class 3 .
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:38 AM
Panth Panth is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Thank you Arnoud! I appreciate the time and effort you put in to teach us, and look into each drawing, giving your suggestions, and help! :-) Prabha
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:23 AM
ElleZ ElleZ is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hi Arnoud,

I think I have completed Class 2, here are my pieces.


Tissue Boxes...
Boxes no perspective done on this, as I was unsure...
4+ Boxes...
and my table and chair 'Perspective 1st...

Errors fixed on my Table and Chair that showed with my perspective...

I had fun but had to keep reminding myself to draw first then do the perspective when finished. Thanks for looking, and let me know if I need to fix something.
Cheers,
Elle
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:41 PM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Elle - you worked very hard .
But it is so much more efficient to post intermediate results. Now you continued with the same misunderstandings.
Foremost, it may sound bizarre, but stop using the names 1PP, 2PP, 3PP. Those terms belong to the mathematical treatment of perspective, and are confusing if applied to a complete picture. Even applied to a single object that is not "cubic"; this is 2PP (there is VP far off the paper):

Likewise, this is not 3PP, it is 2PP:



But following my own advice, I'll now stop using those terms .

We treat only basic perspective in this class, excluding slanted edges or planes.
Then we have these principles:
-- parallel lines in the plane of the picture, seen straight on, do not converge.
-- all lines square to the plane - definitely they run parallel - converge to the same (central) VP. It is acceptable for artists to apply this to lines that are almost square to the plane of the picture .
-- all other sets of parallel lines converge to their own VP, but all VP's lie on the same horizon line.

On your drawings, you very often forgot to look at all sets of parallel lines (corrections in blue):





I'm confused by your table drawing, is that a chair at the back?

As to your question about drawing a rectangle first: no, don't think "rectangle", think "cube" - don't think "circle", think "cylinder" or "sphere" - don't think "triangle", think "pyramid" or "cone" . Think 3-dimensional, not 2-dimensional. Well, for classical realistic style. Comics, illustration or modern fine art is another story .

Keep up the good work .
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:24 PM
ElleZ ElleZ is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hi Arnoud,
This is a photo of my table with a window behind it, so no, there is no chair there.

I hope this helps your confusion.

I am not sure of what you mean by 1pp 2pp 3pp as I never used those terms at all. I did use the VPL and VPR on my practice pieces which I copied from one of the links, either here or that I found.
BTW, I have been using a B pencil the whole way through, I forgot to let you know.
But it looks like I need to go back and redo a few of these lessons, to get them right.
Thanks for the c & c, it helps me to learn.

Cheers,
Elle
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:28 PM
ElleZ ElleZ is offline
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Hi Arnoud,

This is one of the sites I looked at in regard to Perspective, www . drawinghowtodraw.com/stepbystepdrawinglessons/2011/09/basics-of-1-point-and-2-point-perspective-aka-parallel-and-angular-perspective-lesson/....... I dont think I read it properly the first time though.. as I now know what the PP stands for. I must not have saved the link where I copied the first practice drawing I did. I am going to do some more reading as I feel it is still confusing. I also understand what you mean by "As to your question about drawing a rectangle first: no, don't think "rectangle", think "cube" - don't think "circle", think "cylinder" or "sphere" " as I should have drawn a cube around my table and chair, then fixed my errors, now I will go off and do that to see what I still need to fix on these two drawings.
Thanks for pointing all this out,
Cheers,
Elle
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:29 AM
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Re: Basics 101: Class 2 - Foundation of Perspective

Elle - To continue on the table...
Unless you had a very lousy carpenter, the top of the table is parallel to the floor . Ergo, lines connecting the feet run parallel to the top. They must share the same VP.
Compare drawing and reference:



A very common tendency is to draw receding planes too deep.
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