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  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 05-07-2012, 07:41 AM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

I-see I-see, you're very familiar with digital. I hope you find all the good suggestions here helpful for acrylic
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

"Here is the answer:
I use my own wet palette system and the paint NEVER dries.
I bought a pastry saver, lined the bottom with a cham-eze (very absorbant cloth chamois), make sure it is wet by wetting and then squeezing most not all the water out, place a sheet of cheap baking paper on top and there is the palette. I mist water over every now and then to stop my mixes from drying. At the end of the session replace the lid and you are ready to go whenever.
I generally paint on 30"x40" or slightly smaller and have never had a palette dry up, even scraping unused paint of for use on next palette. Some palettes have been there for over a month and are as good as new. If you need more colours use two etc."

Thank you Paul.
I find that to be a very useful suggestion, and as you said the answer, mine anyway. I find that my return to the project frequently is to stave off drying by adding water where something can still be salvaged as time whizzes by. Yesterday I had to scrape and soak the plate,(palette) to get rid of the dried paint. Fortunately the one I'm working on at present has a fairly limited palette. It will be good for portraits particularly.
Thanks again Paul.
P.S. I visited your impressive gallery and like the seascapes as well.
Jon C.

Last edited by jonc50 : 05-07-2012 at 02:43 PM. Reason: To separate the quote
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:10 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

The Masterson tray keeps paints from drying out; the mixing glass plate works well for mixing but dries out quick.

As far as keeping paint from drying out on a glass mixing tray, I have been pondering adding a transparent roll top over my mixing tray tray and a bubbler humidifier driven off an aquarium air pump. Alternately, put an air stone in a cup of water inside the tray.

I am headed out of country for 6 weeks, so it will have to wait until I get back.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:11 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

Correction on book I recommended: "Color Harmony in your Paintings" by Margaret Kessler.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:17 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarisBermamet
Paznbaz:

I've already started using a notebook but I was missing standard measurement units to write down. I also use the notebook to remember what value I assigned to each zone. Colors next to each other can play tricks on you.

.

I put the 2 or 3 starting pure colors down in my book and make a mix swath between them instead of trying to measure exactly. Also, if you are using a knife to move your colors, you can get very good at grabbing a "single peppercorn" unit. Hence, why I have 3 cheap identical painting knives.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:33 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

http://www.guidetooilpainting.com/mi...intColors.html

FYI: Link to Bill Marting Pallette & color mixing
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:14 AM
FarisBermamet FarisBermamet is offline
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

I don't think I will do a glass mixing tray, also usually you mix then scoop out and put it on the wet paletter, its a short duration, I don't understand why you want to keep it wet or humidified.

On color I was planning on getting color and light by james gurney. I'll read a bit more about it, about the Munsell color system, I think Photoshop has a similar structure for their color grid. I'll try to read a bit inside it and do and comparison and see if i'll get both of them or if James book is enough. I already read Betty's course for color theory.

I looked at the link, thanks. I noticed though they recommend titanium white and mentioned the chalk effect which I'm starting to notice in my paintings. I was actually thinking of moving to flake white but the site says it has lead in it which is toxic so I'm a bit concerned now.

Also all the colors mentioned are opaque. Since I'm planning to glaze as soon as I'm done with the grisaille phase this opaqueness versus transparency is becoming a concern for me. I'm not finding any of information glazing on the acrylics forums using water as a medium, currently I don't have a glazing medium and I may not find one when I go back home to Jordan.

Last edited by FarisBermamet : 05-08-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:44 AM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

I really like working off glass - easy to mix,easy to clean, can control the background color, just can't keep the paint wet. Ideally,I would like to work off glass and use the wet pallette as a holding area only.

I have several color books, They seem to break down into two camps -a) those based on conventional pigments (oil, acrylic, watercolor) and b)those based on the cyan/magenta/yellow system (lithography,digital) . I study both, but since I work in tube acrylics, I generally use (a) and think in those terms. Watercolorbooks are very helpful for thinking in terms of glazing instead of opaque colors. I keep Kesslers book handy as well as "Color Mixing Index" by Julie Collins (around $5 used" which coversboth watercolors, oils and acrylics swaths). I keep a couple of (b) books handy. If you are looking for brillant colors, this may be your main interest. Good luck replicating someofthecolors. For the Cyan/magenta/yellow approach, I use QC red,primary cyan and primary yellow, several different whites and Mars blacks.Several books give CYM breakouts. I like Hideki Chijiiwa's Color Harmony ($5 used)for combination ideas. Unfortunately, he uses the DaiNippon Ink and Chemical numbering system which may take some getting used to.

Alternates for tinting brillant colors avoiding TiO2 white. a) Start with a lighter color and use less white. b)Use yellow light hansa and zinc white, c)Consider glazing diluted color over gypsum white. Lead white is available only for oil as far as I know. Many oil purists swear by it.

For thinning colors, I use Liquitex matte medium w/ glossy for highlighted areas. So I can gettoaglaze whether I use opaque ortransparent,just use less medium for trnsparent colors if at all. Read the back of the tubes for transparency information or put together a notebook. For example,most Cad pigments are opaque. But selectively, pyrole orange or pyrolle red thinned with brillant yellow or Hansa yellow is relatively transparent before thinning. Phtalo and QC colors are transparent but intense and very staining.Liquitex makes a alizarin crimson hue permananent that is not too opaque and is a real work horse for me. Ditto for Golden. PS, lighten all reds with with transparent yellow unless you want pink. Transparent venetian red, etc.

Good luck. Headed to airport and will be out of contact for a while.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:25 PM
FarisBermamet FarisBermamet is offline
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

K, thanks for all the help, have a safe trip.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

so now we see a painting?

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Last edited by ribeyedsmile : 05-08-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:01 PM
FarisBermamet FarisBermamet is offline
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

ok, just to give everyone an update on what i've come up with this weekend. My solution to the issue which I think was satisfactory for to me.

I created ten circles rings in a paper template which i shadow on my mixing plate with a graphite pencil, just enough to see it. First from 2 mm, 4mm, 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20.

2mm will be my value 1 and 20mm will be my value 9 and the color itself without anything will be 10.

So to mix two colors lets say burnt sienna and white, you would match 9 color and 1 white, then 8 color and 2 white, so you are going down the scale and going up the scale on another until you reach 5 to 5 then all the way in reverse.

You can use the circles to mix other percentages as well, 4 to 1 to get 25% for example.

Now another idea i came up with was to use tracing paper as a sort of optical adjustable grid. You can copy the circles on the tracing paper, create a metal base to lay the paper on lets say from thin metal hangers in the house and depending on the height of the columns control the scale of the circle by changing the distance looking through the tracing paper to the plate. Perfect mixtures every time.

I'm also planning to calculate how to do a line based system instead of the circles since for wider circles and when you are getting paint out of the tube it gets a bit inaccurate. When you start trying to circle around or create a perfect circle with a constant thickness for example. A long line with the thickness of the tube opening is much more precise.

Solving this was great and having a working system really cleared my mind. Now I'm looking into all the other nice problems. Like the fact that i have to use paper which buckles despite it being 300 g/m2, like the fact that i have to use extenders and water to get smooth brush strokes which doesn't sit well with paper. I can't put it under a book or paint water on the other side for every layer I want to paint. That would take forever.

Also the fact that acrylics seem additively dependent on 100 types of mediums which are not available is killing me, the flow aid and glazing medium for example. Also it dries too fast for the brush strokes to even themselves out without medium. I read you can spray before but again... the paper buckles... no gesso available to do a canvas based one... no illustration boards available in the stores...one choice of made in china brushes... why am i in this art supply deprived location?

Last edited by FarisBermamet : 05-12-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:27 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

Edited because I might have said something I meant.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

now faris, You...you...you have some passion i see.

two thoughts ta meet your passion.

If drying times are an issue

1. try open acrylics and none of the stay wet pallettes will be needed.
2. try oil paint and none of the stay wet pallettes will be needed.

And, I would love to see a painting with your main consern of accurate color.

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Old 05-12-2012, 06:37 PM
FarisBermamet FarisBermamet is offline
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

I appreciate the support but sorry to shoot you down on this one Michael. The subject is too personal for me to share. And I've put a rule to work on one painting until I get it right. If the subject was more general I would have loved to put my money where my mouth is but not in this case.

The thing that pisses me off is that I already accomplished the quality i want on a small scale before so it must have something to do with my focus.

Oil paint at this point would solve the current problems but every medium brings it own issues and I think it's too early for me to wuss out on acrylics yet. I did it before so it must be a matter of time. If I do get this right I think I will carry better into oils later.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:33 PM
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Re: Reproducing a value ladder - accuracy question

You can devise all the systems you want, but, until the brush hits the canvas, it is all for naught.
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