Understanding color-temperature relationships

[Horsa]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

Ok it’s possible to reduce things to absurdity and mix inappropriate colours but within the realm of practical colour mixing what you lay out is not as important as what you do with it when you apply it to the canvas.
But before you start splashing the paint you need to decide what the finished work is going to look like, you have to visualise. Colour-temperature relationships will help you with that. If you can’t make that visualisation then you will struggle.

<SNIP>

It would be hard to get two more different palettes but the result is very much the same, illustrating my point that the paint you chose to lay out on your palette within sensible boundaries is irrelevant.
Dave

Ah, but, here is my point exactly. To arrive at paint choices within those "sensible boundaries" requires a considerable knowledge of the properties of those paints. You may reached the point where this knowledge is instinctual to you, but it is none the less there.

There is a very significant difference between "paint choices are irrelevant" and "paint choices within sensible boundaries are irrelevant". Don't believe me, have your surgeon tell you that where he makes his initial incision is irrelevant.

[Gigalot]

Daylight 5500K to 3200K tungsten halogen lamp warm light Kodak color temperature conversion filter:

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Horsa

requires a considerable knowledge of the properties of those paints.

Not really just some basics.

Originally Posted by Horsa

Try mixing a bright orange with lemon yellow and alizarin crimson

If you think you need a bright orange then you are starting off on the wrong foot, what you need to do is mix a warm colour and surround it with cool colour, Most of the time you are not going to mix a colour to match what you see in nature, especially with wild flowers this time of year in the rain. But if you use colour temperature relationships and desaturation you can make the colour you can mix look much brighter. The colours don’t matter its what you surround them with that matters and how the whole thing relates temperature wise.

Dave

[Gigalot]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

what you need to do is mix a warm colour and surround it with cool colour

Yes, but don`t forget about optical mixing. You can also get gray result with a distant (3-4 meters) view.
People, who really need high chroma orange can use an orange colour tube

[llawrence]

Okay, that was my last attempt. I'll confine such posts to the Composition forum from here on. Temperature is something different from theory or mixing anyway, so that's appropriate enough.

[Journeyman]

Don’t give up on us Llawrence, your take on colour temperature and saturation contrasts is very valuable. Learning to see that sort of thing is very important, much more important than getting obesest with pigments. Your chose of Rembrandt illustrates the point visually which is what it should all be about.

Dave

[Gigalot]

Originally Posted by llawrence

Temperature is something different from theory or mixing

..and therefore can`t be mixed from real pigments!

P.S According your idea Louis, I started my new painting with inorganic pigments only. Earth and minerals, cadmium and cobalts only. Great idea!

[Patrick1]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

Don’t give up on us Llawrence, your take on colour temperature and saturation contrasts is very valuable. Learning to see that sort of thing is very important, much more important than getting obesest with pigments. Your chose of Rembrandt illustrates the point visually which is what it should all be about.

What if Rembrandt did his painting and got all the 'temperatures' right without even thinking in terms of 'temperature'?

[sidbledsoe]

Even though the topic of this thread was specifically about thinking in terms of temperature, I must agree with Louis:

I'll confine such posts to the Composition forum from here on.

or any other forum.

[sidbledsoe]

Originally Posted by Patrick1

What if Rembrandt did his painting and got all the 'temperatures' right without even thinking in terms of 'temperature'?

then he would have just drawn a winning hand, pure luck, but we should still have encouraged Rembrandt to not think in terms of temperature had we been there.

[Gigalot]

Rembrandt painted as is. His "Cool" choice Ultramarine was 10 times more expensive than gold and not useful, other paints was fugitive and faded completely. We can see now his forced "warm" colors - orphaned permanent ocher and sienna.

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Patrick

What if Rembrandt did his painting and got all the 'temperatures' right without even thinking in terms of 'temperature'?

Patrick get a selection of drawing papers out, chose some warm and cool versions, then do some portraits using sanguine charcoal and white chalk on them. At the same time look at some drawings by the various masters. If you still don’t understand the importance and simplicity of thinking in terms of temperature and get some inkling of how the masters understood it I’d be surprised.

Dave

[Gigalot]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

If you still don’t understand the importance and simplicity of thinking in terms of temperature and get some inkling of how the masters understood it I’d be surprised.

Dave

Warm orange is reddish or yellowish?

[sidbledsoe]

Originally Posted by Gigalot

Warm orange is reddish or yellowish?

Both red and yellow leaning orange are warm in relation to relatively cooler colors like blue or green. Relative to each other though, one would have to view the particular examples and then decide if one is, or if it is even possible to discern which one is warmer or cooler, which I am quite sure I could not do because it is far below my personal detection limit. It is all relative and a matter of degree.
This particular question/example is an example of the reason for the historical contention/conflict/confusion in previous threads here which in summary and in reality, were much ado about nothing.

[Journeyman]

Orange on it’s own is neutral it’s not until you apply it to a coloured surface or put other colours next to it that colour temperature relationships come in.

Dave

PS Sid replied while I was typing