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Old 04-25-2012, 08:00 PM
Wild Weather Wild Weather is offline
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WMO over pen?

Hello! Can you use WMO's over pen?

I have read that it is a bad idea to paint over pencil because it will eventually show, or rise through the paint. Will pen do that? I am looking for something compatible.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:14 PM
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Re: WMO over pen?

Hi Wild Weather,

I'm not sure about why you would want to use pen under wmo? Is it because you want to sketch the drawing on your canvas with pen? Or for another reason?

If you need a product to sketch with under your wmos, some artists use pastel pencils, some use colored pencils, some use watercolors/and/or pencils, others use charcoal either vine or pencil, some draw with paint, etc.

Don't know if this helps, but there will be many others who will give good advice!

Shirley
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:19 PM
Wild Weather Wild Weather is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

Thanks for responding!

I am looking to produce a sketch below the painting. I am more comfortable using pen or pencil when I sketch on paper, and would like to reproduce it onto the canvas. I like a messier look, and don't mind if some of it shows below thin or transparent layers, so that is not really my issue. I am concerned with the compatibility with WMO's. Will the sketch rise to the surface after so many years? Could it create dips in the paint, or cracks?

I paint on canvas and several types of wood. Primed, of course.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:28 PM
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laika laika is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

Bill Creevy demonstrates painting over ink in his The Oil Painting Book: Materials and Techniques for Today's Artist. He even paints over ballpoint pen, IIRC! Also IIRC, he states that some of those insanely detailed Flemish paintings were oil over ink. He mentions the graphite problem and warns about using certain types of markers.

Another example of artists using oil over ink: here is an excellent still-life instruction.

disclaimer: I am not a chemist. The above are offered as examples related to your question.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:17 PM
Wild Weather Wild Weather is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

Those are some great examples! Thank you.

I think I will try it. I have a painting my friend did in WMO on my wall; the figure was clearly drawn in pen under thin layers of paint, and seems to be holding up well, but it's only been about 5 years...

Happy painting!
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:55 PM
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laika laika is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

Yeah, I think something like India ink at its most basic is lampblack and water, so maybe there's nothing there that would be incompatible with WMOs. I don't know what kind of ink van Eyck used way back when, but the idea of painting oils over ink is certainly not without historical precedent.

FWIW, I've used a dip pen and black ink on a small gessoed hardboard panel with alkyd oil paint on top and I haven't noticed any problem after a couple of years. It was a little glazing experiment. I enjoyed using the ink, adding detail and correcting or removing it with fake steel wool. Not knowing what I was doing in my glaze attempt, I completely covered the drawing ultimately. I plan to try it all again someday, maybe letting the drawing show in places like you mentioned.

I don't know if using water as a thinner with WMOs might not re-wet and displace the ink drawing, though. Maybe some others here will have some ideas to share.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:37 AM
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dbclemons dbclemons is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

There will be no problem with any compatibility between oil paint on an ink layer. The ink is just staining the surface so it's not going to interfere with the paint; although, dark areas may not cover well. The issue to handle will be the ink itself. Many markers in particular are made of dyes that will fade or change color over time, or solvents that will stain or bleed into the surface. I recommend looking for pens that claim to use pigmented ink and are described as being "archival", such as PITT, ZIG or Micron markers. Shellac inks may cause problems if you've covered over a large area with it, and a thinned oil paint could cause the lines to bleed some. Acrylic inks such as those from Speedball or Liquitex work very well.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Wild Weather Wild Weather is offline
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Re: WMO over pen?

I really appreciate all the comments and help. I feel better moving forward in my experiments. Thanks for all the advice!
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