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  #91   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-19-2012, 11:17 PM
plog
 
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Re: Fat over lean?

This is why I like oiling out before a final varnish. If one varnishes first, while areas of the painting are still underbound, some of those pigments can be removed along with the varnish upon cleaning.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:07 PM
SSB SSB is offline
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Re: Fat over lean?

I don't think it matters so long as the paint is able to stick together. OOHhhhhhhHH
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:36 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Fat over lean?

Fat over lean is just a basic guideline, a fundamental concept based upon one aspect. Just because one may at times violate fat over lean does not mean that the painting will exhibit any ill effects. It probably is done far more often than we would think, especially with glazing. I know that I have violated the fundamental fat over lean rule and had no problem. It is also a matter of the degree to which it is done, I think the main ancillary factor is allowing for sufficient drying between layers which helps reduce the need to follow it so strictly.

Last edited by sidbledsoe : 04-23-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:25 PM
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Re: Fat over lean?

Just wanted to post this great info on fat over lean I found Sorry if this has been posted I didnt have time read all the pages in this topic. http://www.sanders-studios.com/instr...oidcracks.html

Last edited by evan3585 : 04-24-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: Fat over lean?

That article isn't bad, but remember that he is an artist repeating what he has been taught or heard, and what he says isn't necessarily correct.
For example, he defines stand oil as:
"Stand Oil is a specific type of linseed oil that has been left to "stand," literally, in open containers. The oil is thus allowed to partially oxydize or polymerize prior to bottling."
I think this is called sun thickened oil and is very different from stand oil which is:
"Stand oil is generated by heating linseed oil near 300 °C for a few days in the complete absence of air. Under these conditions, the polyunsaturated fatty esters convert to conjugated dienes, which then undergo Diels-Alder reactions, leading to crosslinking." (From Wikipedia)

I have emailed the author.
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Last edited by Ron Francis : 04-24-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:04 AM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Fat over lean?

That brings up another question, is stand oil fatter than regular linseed oil? This illustrates the confusion when only considering the limited, and thus flawed, oil to pigment ratio definition. By that sole criterion, no, they are both 100% oil to no pigment. However in truth and in practice, yes, stand oil must decidedly be used as, and considered as being "fatter" than regular linseed oil.

Last edited by sidbledsoe : 04-25-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:07 PM
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Re: Fat over lean?

I would have thought so Sid.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:37 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Fat over lean?

about that i surely won't beef..stew
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: Fat over lean?

I'll go back to what I said on page 2, which I think is an adaptation of something you said once Sid.

In my mind there are only two things to consider.

1: Slow drying over fast drying
2: Flexible over less flexible.

I think these two rules cover just about everything else don't they, apart from underbound pigment.
Stand oil is both slower drying and forms a more flexible film than straight linseed.
Painting thick over thin is covered by rule 1, and solvent addition is covered by both.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:32 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Fat over lean?

yes sir ron, i think that is a good plan, i think people want a simple and easy rule to follow and at first fat/lean looks like the ticket but really it is anything but simple and easy.
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