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Old 04-16-2012, 03:59 PM
LostFoxeh LostFoxeh is offline
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Need opinions on blue pigments

Okay so I am looking for two particular blues. I'm having a hard time finding them cause it is hard to mix higher saturation for brighter? colors.

So I will try to describe the color by the feeling I want it to impose. Also of course I mix to tune the color, but I'm looking for something I can mix from to get to where I want to go.

First one, when you look at it you get a feeling of cold and solid, like a unforgiving surface. If plate armor was made of this blue you'll feel like nothing could pass through it and the wearer would have no mercy in his cold heart.
So far I have found ultramarine to be fairly close to this blue. However I would like a slightly more steely blue, for this I am considering cobalt blue, only cause it has a metal in the name. Honestly I have never actually seen cobalt blue proper. My monitor is hardly worth mentioning, nothing ever looks like it does on my screen. This is where I want to pull on yall's experience for the ones who have seen both pigments, or other pigments I don't know about.

The second color I want to be an energetic blue. One that feels like it is buzzing with energy. When you see it, you almost expect to see sparks come off. If a car was painted in this blue, you'd half expect an electric shock every time you touch it. I found phthalo blue to be close, but a bit dull. Could be from my cheap paint, haven't tried my artist quality paint just yet.

Any blues that give you the feelings/impressions I said above please point me to them so I can try them and see if they work. It is for some characters I like to paint quite often. I would like to get them to look how I imagine them to be. Well at least close.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:33 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostFoxeh
Okay so I am looking for two particular blues. I'm having a hard time finding them cause it is hard to mix higher saturation for brighter? colors.

So I will try to describe the color by the feeling I want it to impose. Also of course I mix to tune the color, but I'm looking for something I can mix from to get to where I want to go.

First one, when you look at it you get a feeling of cold and solid, like a unforgiving surface. If plate armor was made of this blue you'll feel like nothing could pass through it and the wearer would have no mercy in his cold heart.
So far I have found ultramarine to be fairly close to this blue. However I would like a slightly more steely blue, for this I am considering cobalt blue, only cause it has a metal in the name. Honestly I have never actually seen cobalt blue proper. My monitor is hardly worth mentioning, nothing ever looks like it does on my screen. This is where I want to pull on yall's experience for the ones who have seen both pigments, or other pigments I don't know about.

The second color I want to be an energetic blue. One that feels like it is buzzing with energy. When you see it, you almost expect to see sparks come off. If a car was painted in this blue, you'd half expect an electric shock every time you touch it. I found phthalo blue to be close, but a bit dull. Could be from my cheap paint, haven't tried my artist quality paint just yet.

Any blues that give you the feelings/impressions I said above please point me to them so I can try them and see if they work. It is for some characters I like to paint quite often. I would like to get them to look how I imagine them to be. Well at least close.


You already have the ultramarine, and may want to pick up a tube of cobalt turquoise, then mix the two in varying quantities. Amazing what blues can be obtained with those two. If you are interested, you may want to look at the Blick Turquoise Light. It is a single pigment color and is the real thing. Good price too. http://www.dickblick.com/items/01595...#colorpigments
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

If you live near a nice library go and check out a few books on color theory.

Or... if you are near a really nice used bookstore you may be able to purchase a book or two on colors.

or... heresy!.... go to any place that sells paint and grab as many color swatches as you can. I know house paint is not artist paint-BUT- maybe you can spot just the colors you want. Then try to mix them using what colors you have, which may or may not be possible.

I am an old car aficionado, and the color that came to mind for excitement was "Richard Petty" blue, the other color was black+white( to the value desired) + a little blue . Not very precise, but I just mix as I go.

If you have time and a willingness try these websites:

http://www.worqx.com/color/

http://www.huevaluechroma.com/

There is no substitute for self-education, so go for it. I suspect you already know a bit about color, or at the least, have an innate sense of what feels right.

and cheap paints are cheap paints, buy the best you can afford, you will be amazed at how much better the good ones are.

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Old 04-17-2012, 12:14 AM
LostFoxeh LostFoxeh is offline
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdhs
If you live near a nice library go and check out a few books on color theory.

Or... if you are near a really nice used bookstore you may be able to purchase a book or two on colors.

or... heresy!.... go to any place that sells paint and grab as many color swatches as you can. I know house paint is not artist paint-BUT- maybe you can spot just the colors you want. Then try to mix them using what colors you have, which may or may not be possible.

I am an old car aficionado, and the color that came to mind for excitement was "Richard Petty" blue, the other color was black+white( to the value desired) + a little blue . Not very precise, but I just mix as I go.

If you have time and a willingness try these websites:

http://www.worqx.com/color/

http://www.huevaluechroma.com/

There is no substitute for self-education, so go for it. I suspect you already know a bit about color, or at the least, have an innate sense of what feels right.

and cheap paints are cheap paints, buy the best you can afford, you will be amazed at how much better the good ones are.

life is good

greg

Right and I do some of that. I do plan to buy different paints to try and get what I want, but the good ones cost 8-14 a tube for the watercolor mix. Since I buy using the money I sell my work at, I can't by much often. So instead of using a shogun approach I'm asking around and trying to learn.

For color theory I'm currently reading through handprint.com There is sooo much, it will take awhile till I fully understand it all.

So far I have learned the "consumer" monitor does not show color well nor do most printers. Which I kinda already knew but now I know the science behind it. I also know how to brighten, darken, and mix colors. Well the idea, still practicing. I get pretty close with acrylics, but not so close with watercolors. I get the hue right but not the value.

As far as what colors go well together, I'm not sure if I want to read too much into that before I develop a very strong sense of myself. I wouldn't want to become dependent on choosing color based of what a book said is right. Ether way I figure I better be good at getting the color before worrying about the next step.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:14 AM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

I guess, "Armour blue" is Iron Blue PB27 - deep and strong pigment, darker than phthalo Blue in mass.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:15 AM
llawrence llawrence is offline
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostFoxeh
I found phthalo blue to be close, but a bit dull.
If phthalo blue is too dull for your needs, then I'm not sure if we'll be able to help you out. That's about the most electric blue I've used, I think - far more saturated than I personally have ever had a need for. I use PB27, as Alex wrote - fairly similar.

Is this for an illustration by any chance? If so, you might try using these paints, then scanning the artwork, and bumping up the saturation as needed in Photoshop. No physical pigment constraints there.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:15 PM
sidbledsoe sidbledsoe is offline
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Wow, you are talking about colors that elicit feelings. That is in the realm of things that are sensual responses, like color temperature, can you just give a munsell coordinate?
just kidding, if phthalo blue, phthalo greeen and Dioxazine violet and ultramarine blue can't get you there, I just don't know what would. These can make any shade of blue through turquoise through green while ultramarine and Diozazine would take you the other end of the blue violet spectrum. Of course there are other shades of single pigment colors that lie somewhere in various places in the entire range also.
The name of cobalt isn't an indication that the pigment will look steely or metallic. Cobalt blue is a softer, gentler, blue than ultramarine, it isn't usually as violet and imo not any more metallic looking, maybe less.
Quote:
I found phthalo blue to be close, but a bit dull
this may be the only time I have ever heard anyone associate phthalo blue with dull
All in all, it kinda sounds like you are after a style of painting moreso than you are trying to find a "right" color. Maybe like a polished photorealistic style vs a painterly loose style. Or maybe you are sensing that paint itself falls somewhere short of reproducing the real world, real lifelike, light and colors that exist. This is a common comment made by plein air painters, that they just can't capture on canvas, the intense real colors of nature and light.

Last edited by sidbledsoe : 04-17-2012 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:29 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Unlike with some craft acrylics, oil paints generally don't have names like armor blue, wicker white, barn red, periwinkle blue, etc., at present. Although a couple of decades ago, Liquitex made a line of craft oil paints, that had colors with names like barn red, etc. One really has to learn how to mix, to arrive at a color they are seeking. Although I disagree with some of the content, a book that others might find helpful is The Artist's Guide to Selecting Colors, by Michael Wilcox.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:02 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidbledsoe
All in all, it kinda sounds like you are after a style of painting moreso than you are trying to find a "right" color. Maybe like a polished photorealistic style vs a painterly loose style. Or maybe you are sensing that paint itself falls somewhere short of reproducing the real world, real lifelike, light and colors that exist. This is a common comment made by plein air painters, that they just can't capture on canvas, the intense real colors of nature and light.

I suppose that a person could go out to paint plein air, with hundreds of munsell chips, and the better part of a thousand tubes of paint, but theyd better work dog gone fast.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:17 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Something I found to help was going to a house paint store or section of a hardware store and get as many of the paint swatches as they will let me escape with. Some will tell you what colors are in it or in most cases it gives me something to work with and I try to recreate the color. I also use them at times when I am trying to ID a color of something.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:26 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Perhaps I missed it, but what medium are you painting in? I find the surface material (paper) to affect the watercolors.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:53 AM
LostFoxeh LostFoxeh is offline
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

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Originally Posted by Gigalot
I guess, "Armour blue" is Iron Blue PB27 - deep and strong pigment, darker than phthalo Blue in mass.

Thanks for that. I actually have some Iron Blue pigment from M. Graham. I just tried it and it is great.

As for me saying phthalo blue being dull. I might be using the wrong word. It just doesn't have what I am trying to achieve. I know it exist cause I have seen it. However the paint that I have used it in is very cheap and has lots of filler, so I suspect it is that. Not to worry I already bought "artist" quality and I'm currently phasing out the cheap materials, I hate to waste things to much just throw out the old paint.

No photoshop is not an option. Sure I could do that for hosting it on the web, not that the end view would use calibrated monitor so being picky kinda stops there. It is personal work, that is why I am particular about it. Pretty much I am emotionally invested in it.

As for the medium, I hop between acrylics and watercolor. Although I think I will ultimately go to oils now I have ventilation where I paint. I like having extremely long open times to push my paint around.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:52 PM
LostFoxeh LostFoxeh is offline
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termini.
Unlike with some craft acrylics, oil paints generally don't have names like armor blue, wicker white, barn red, periwinkle blue, etc., at present. Although a couple of decades ago, Liquitex made a line of craft oil paints, that had colors with names like barn red, etc. One really has to learn how to mix, to arrive at a color they are seeking. Although I disagree with some of the content, a book that others might find helpful is The Artist's Guide to Selecting Colors, by Michael Wilcox.


Oh I am not looking for pre-mixed, I my my own colors. I only use primary colors, 5 in total cause there is no perfect red blur or yellow, so I get one the is warm and cool for each. Problem is my lack of experience, so I come here for a direction to run in.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:11 PM
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Re: Need opinions on blue pigments

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostFoxeh
Oh I am not looking for pre-mixed, I my my own colors. I only use primary colors, 5 in total cause there is no perfect red blur or yellow, so I get one the is warm and cool for each. Problem is my lack of experience, so I come here for a direction to run in.

Again, you may want to consider the book that I mentioned above, and do note that quite a few people responded to your inquiry.
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