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Old 04-05-2012, 03:22 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Practice from live model thread - 2012

Inspired by Dave's thread here ...

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=847212

... I thought it might be a good idea to just make one thread and post my practice studies from live model. That makes it easier to judge progress (if there is any) and for me easier to find comments that give helpful suggestions on how to improve.

Only work from live model will be posted here. I work with live model since Feb. 21th 2012. Oil paintings and drawings I will post here. For comments on the brushwork I might post a link to high resolution images, those load slow and not necessary to click unless the brushwork comes under consideration.

With this thread I will have a kind of diary instead of many threads I have trouble finding them myself .... and I hope it encourages others to try to work from live model, even If my results are not very good (I hope they might get better).

C&C always welcome !
__________________________________________________ _____________
April 5th 2012
__________________________________________________ _____________

Today I had a model here and it was the same model I had here pretty much exactly a month back ... with quite a disaster as a result:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...92&postcount=9

Today we did again a drawing and then an oil painting. Here they are:

Drawing in natural Willow brand charcoal. Light from above left. Working time ca. 1 1/2 Hours.


Oil painting, light from above right ... 30x40cm ... working time ca. 3 1/2 hours

Higher Resolution (loads slow): http://dustonpaper.smugmug.com/Art/Portrait/19438152_g4N8pb#!i=1781068479&k=sgTLctP&lb=1&s=O

Close up:

Higher Resolution (loads slow):
http://dustonpaper.smugmug.com/Art/Portrait/19438152_g4N8pb#!i=1781069109&k=Xzf8HkZ&lb=1&s=O

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My analysis:
Todays result I like more than that one a month ago. Still I have two drawings and two painting which do not show the same person and none of it got a likeness that I would like to achieve.

I think that is because I still do not pay enough attention to the large shapes. I'm pretty certain, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that it are the large shapes that define a likeness. Details I believe are less important and worth nothing without well placed large shapes. After the large shapes I guess come the values, and then the temperature relationship of the colors and only then the colors itself, which are least important for a likeness (a monochrome painting in green will still look like the person if the shapes are right and the values).
_______________

I wont be painting from live model for probably the next few days since I visit family. There I will paint from photo. I wonder how that will work, since the last time I painted from photo is about 2 1/2 months back.
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Last edited by dustonpaper : 04-05-2012 at 03:34 PM. Reason: added working time
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:49 PM
lovin art lovin art is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Hey hiya , Love that PAINTED Head , its very fetching , your doing SOOoooo well , keep going and never stop I say ...

Quote:
Still I have two drawings and two painting which do not show the same person and none of it got a likeness that I would like to achieve.

yES this takes time and will come , Im the opposition atm , Im understanding the Likness , but Im really struggling with drawing in other areas , but Im pushing through it , and you are doing great !!

Loads of Easter wishes to you Sascha....;-)
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Last edited by lovin art : 04-05-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:06 PM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Hi, I think you're being too hard on yourself as far as likeness goes. If you look at a BBC documentary by David Hockney he proved how artists began using the camera obscura back in the 15th century or so. It was just to make a few marks and saved the artist hours. I believe a lot more artists even today use projectors than they would have you believe. It's not that you can't eventually get likeness, you will get it, it's just it takes a lot of effort and time.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:37 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Thank you Sandra, glad you like the painting ... and a happy easter time to you as well.

Thanks Amrit. I feel I need to be very self critical to get where I want to be, especially since I have no real life teaching to guide me ... except a few books, videos and the comments here at WC ... if I don't analyze my failures I will not get any better.

Regarding projectors by Hockney, yes, I have seen that documentary. Actually I once owned one of these hell machines when I began to get interested in painting. It was of no use. The distortions it created where easily to spot ... sold it at ebay which was where I got it from in the first place and will never get one again.
There is more to working with live models than just a painting ... there is talking, interaction, an atmosphere (usually a very positive so far with my models) ... I started out with work from photo, and see nothing wrong with people doing it ... but once I began to work from life not that long ago it opened a whole new world that made me lose interest in other ways to work ... even though my work from live model is much worse than what I did from photo before ... I look forward all week of dayjob for these few hours with my models.
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:21 AM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmritS
Hi, I think you're being too hard on yourself as far as likeness goes. If you look at a BBC documentary by David Hockney he proved how artists began using the camera obscura back in the 15th century or so. It was just to make a few marks and saved the artist hours. I believe a lot more artists even today use projectors than they would have you believe. It's not that you can't eventually get likeness, you will get it, it's just it takes a lot of effort and time.

Though I paint from life and I don't know how to lug around my camera obscura ! ( so I work hard to draw well from what I see)..

ps Good work Dustonpaper!! keep up the practice!

-Kevin
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:29 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Kevin - thank you very much, I will keep on

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April 17th 2011

The last week was holiday time and I painted nearly only from photo, like what relatives and friends would like to have painted.

But I got to get my father sit for me for one portrait drawing (for that I had to paint John Wayne for him, twice ... he likes Western stuff).



He also insisted on wearing the hat

The basic likeness is OK I think, but I will do another one next time I visit.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:35 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Only had myself available as "live" model today:


It is natural charcoal and a little charcoal pencil. Happy with parts of it, not so happy about other parts . But every hour drawing gets it better I guess.

This is my setup for self portrait practice:


C&C always welcome.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Thanks for showing us your latest- I see real progress with both!
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

wow, love them! a lot of characters in there!
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:08 AM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Intense portraits. Love the brushstrokes in the painting.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:53 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Bethany - Thank you so much. I'm glad you see progress. Not sure if I do, but no matter what, I will keep on it.

Nanzi - Thank you very very much. Character is very important for me, more important than a photographic likeness (which is still what a skill I want to learn, to be able to work perfect in all ... but in the end it has to go together with character).

Harry - Thank you so much for commenting. I's like to learn how to paint real thick with impasto brushwork and still keep realism. What I want to learn is the technique Sargent, Zorn, Fechin and others used, portraits that are best looked at from a certain distance.

______

Here is the result from todays drawing session. Working time about 2 hours, pretty much life size (or tiny slightly smaller). Natural charcoal and charcoal pencil here and there (mainly for the glasses ... I really like models with glasses, they give all kind of weird funny shadows, distortions and reflections).



It is the same model I painted a few weeks back:


My analysis:

Again two portraits from the same person which might like mediocre nice seen alone, but they show two different persons. That means I'm still in a lot of trouble (so I need more practice, way more practice).

Also I have problems with the construction and especially with the placement of the middle-line alignment of the face and the eyes-nose-mouth placement. Or maybe it is the wide of the side of the face that is more far away from me compared to the side that is more close. I have the tendency to place all in a more full-frontal position. Need to slow down and measure more.

Thank you for looking, C&C always appreciated.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:11 PM
crafor crafor is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

[quote=dustonpaper]


It is the same model I painted a few weeks back:


My analysis: two portraits from the same person which might like mediocre nice seen alone, but they show two different persons.
Quote:
That means I'm still in a lot of trouble (so I need more practice, way more practice).
Not necessarily: people can look different on different days or even hours, caused by emotions, including intensity of interest, relaxation, health, anxiety, etc. It could also be the way YOU are seeing the person at that moment, and YOUR emotions, interest, and so on.
Quote:
Also I have problems with the construction and especially with the placement of the middle-line alignment of the face and the eyes-nose-mouth placement. Or maybe it is the wide of the side of the face that is more far away from me compared to the side that is more close. I have the tendency to place all in a more full-frontal position. Need to slow down and measure more.
Problems similar to mine What I see here too, is the position of the head. In the painting, she seems to be leaning forward, head extended, intently studying or very attentive to what is in front of her. I think the color makes her more "alive".
In the charcoal, her mouth is opened, her eyes make me think something is not right--she appears (to me) worried. Having said that, the Charcoal, the nose seems more tipped, more sharp. Her face seems broader but the hair is pulled back, too, so it will. Her right side jaw line (our left) really throws it off for me. I think that jaw line needs brought towards the nose and mouth. In the Charcoal, the forehead rises, then slopes back. If you make the forehead straighter and taller, bring the hairline more in keeping with the painted one, and move the ear a little forward, I think it will more strongly resemble the painting.
I don't think you're far off, but in "landmark" areas--tip of nose, (profile) jawline, hairline, ear. Yes, the ear is way too far back. in my opinion.
Did you see my recent two in my "100"? Done one after the other, and they have somewhat similar problems. You are getting a lot of "life" into your work.
In my opinion.
Crafor

Last edited by crafor : 04-21-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

I'm digging the brushwork and tonal ranges you're getting with these and the charcoals.Impressive work!
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Old 04-21-2012, 10:56 PM
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Hello Duston,
Thanks for sharing you works, they are really very good, I can see BIG progress. You didn't told us how much time did you spent on them, but they look (especially the sketches) done, I mean nuanced (I'm not sure about right word). So you're working hard and it's really visible in your works. I love the self-portrait, it's very moody. I'm curious how much time do you spend on practice?
What a pity I don't have more free time to practice, I can see what I'm loosing...
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:43 PM
dustonpaper dustonpaper is offline
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Re: Practice from live model thread - 2011

Crafor - Thank you so much for your detailed answer. You are absolutely right with everything you say. And yes, I keep an eye on your threads ... it is just that I have so little time at the moment to comment, I'm kind of ashamed I do not post more comments on other threads, but I rarely find the time to post. But you're doing well and you practice hard, that will get you somewhere.

John - Thank you very very much. I'm glad you like the brushwork. I try to learn how to paint thick and with visible brushwork and paint directly. I find it the most rewarding for myself way to paint and I guess once one masters it it offers a lot of freedom for expression.

Dominika - I am really glad you see progress. Sometimes I think I see some, then it wont work at all. It sure is no straight way upwards to produce constant quality that gets better with every work. But on the other hand it would not be a challenge if it was easy.
For the drawings I took about 2 1/2 to 3 hours time. I find that actually really slow for charcoal work (I got a book by Henry Yan (highly recommend it), he draws heads in 20 minutes that will look better than what I will ever be able to do .
Since you asked about how I practice:
I have no formal teaching at all and I'm interested in painting since about 3 years now ... before that I never even had the slightest interest in visual art at all. Self taught so to say and most of the time I think my teacher is an idiot. In general I since 2011 spend every minute on painting and drawing that I have the time+energy. From live I paint since the end of February when I figured working from photos will get me nowhere and became bored with it. Before I began painting from live I really did not do that much except a figure drawing group for two hours on Thursday since last October (no teaching, just a model and it doesn't cost much for the people who go there). Before the figure drawing group I only did work from photo and like 3 landscapes outdoor and 3 self portraits or something ... I was not spending more than 5 hours over the week practicing until I began with the live models at the end of February. Now over the 7 days of week I have about 8 to 20 hours working on my practice, depending how much time and energy I find. Live models I have on the weekend and sometimes during the week in the evening. If no live model I do self portraits or color charts etc.. When I lack the energy to work on a drawing or painting (which is quite often so because my job gets really energy consuming often ) ... then I read about painting, look at paintings in books and online or watch instructional videos about painting. There is rarely a minute during the day which I do not think about painting ... even when I lay down to sleep I imagine an empty canvas in from of me and how I paint and solve imaginary problems on it until I sleep in. But all that only began with the work from live, before that I had a hard time taking a brush in my hand usually spent all day saying to myself "tomorrow I will paint something", which I then of course did not. Considering how much time I spend on it I think I am not progressing that well, but I do what is within my possibilities. I so wish I could practice all day every day, but that's not possible for now.

______

Here are two new ones.

This one is an oil portrait study from last Sunday (30x40 cm, working time about 2h45m):


A high resolution image of it (loads slow): http://dustonpaper.smugmug.com/Art/P...Hx2nS&lb=1&s=O

And this here is a portrait practice from this evening, model left about 1 hour ago ... about live size, 2h30m working time, mostly done with natural charcoal plus a bit pressed charcoal.



Her left eye is quite a bit off I think (too high and should be closer to the nose). But in general I quite like the result, it was good practice anyway.
It is the same model I have been drawing and painting before:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1025292
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show....php?t=1041732
and here:
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...22&postcount=3 (last two images).

I really like to draw glasses. No idea why, but it is a lot of fun with the reflections and all, makes it interesting.

Thank's for looking and C&C always welcome !
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