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  #31   Report Bad Post  
Old 04-13-2012, 09:40 PM
bjr001 bjr001 is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

You can find practically anything you “need” on the web; unfortunately. Who needs experience when you can simply quote the guy trying to sell you something.

I have spent many years researching and more important using and even testing these products. I’ve always been cautious of manufacture’s claims especially Gamblin, especially on solvents. The only manufacture I’m aware of that refers to mineral spirits or OMS (Gamsol) as safe or the safest of all the solvents in literature and on their products is Gamblin. Another, though not a manufacture that will quote the same as Gamblin is AMIEN.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblin
GAMSOL - Odorless Mineral Spirits
Gamsol is the safest solvent that allows oil painters to utilize all traditional painting techniques without compromise.

Safety is not a natural characteristic of any material. Safety is something the user practices while using a specific product. When a manufacture recommends you not use a particular product because “they” deem it too “unsafe” for you to use, they are talking down at you. By the way, Gamblin doesn’t sell turpentine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblin
These facts are detailed in the MSDS for Gamsol, this document shows that it has an Exposure Limit Value higher than most solvents available to artists. In addition, Gamsol's flash point is so high it can ship via air cargo as a non-hazardous material.

PPM, ELV counts are not a measure of safety and it gives people a false sense of security when using solvents. Flammable products are not permitted to fly. Combustible products such OMS including Gamsol are permitted to fly. Gamsol is classified as a combustible and is indeed a hazardous material. Read the warning on the label.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblin – Gamsol
Oderless mineral spirits is less toxic because harmfull aromatic solvents has been removed.

By using odorless mineral spirits (OMS) you can cut down on your exposure to solvent vapor. During a three hour painting session, 15-20% of OMS evaporates into the air around you. Compare that with the evaporation rate of turpentine, which is so fast that during a three hour painting session, approximately 80-90% of the turpentine evaporates into the area.

Gum turpentine evaporates faster than MS, however, it will not evaporate 80% to 90% in a three hour period. A small amount of gum turpentine in an open container will take more than 8 hours to evaporate 80-90%. Gamblin defines toxicity as having less aromatics which it does compared to turpentine, however, this does not make Gamsol safer; this is a falsehood. Read the warnings on the label. Some people are sensitive or even allergic to certain solvents. This is an issue with that person, not the product. Unfortunately there are people that gladly take advantage of people’s fears, ignorance to line their pockets. Woe the artist that allows the store keeper to be his master.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:17 PM
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Ron Francis Ron Francis is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr001
<snip>PPM, ELV counts are not a measure of safety and it gives people a false sense of security when using solvents. <snip>
Gamblin defines toxicity as having less aromatics which it does compared to turpentine, however, this does not make Gamsol safer; this is a falsehood. Read the warnings on the label. <snip>
bjr001,
I'm not sure what your trying to say here.
If you are just saying that one should be cautious when using solvents then that is good advice. But suggesting that a solvent that has a higher PEL (Permissible Exposure Rating (expressed in PPM)) is no less hazardous than one with a lower PEL doesn't make sense.
Can you qualify this opinion with any articles?
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:13 PM
bjr001 bjr001 is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
bjr001,
I'm not sure what your trying to say here.
If you are just saying that one should be cautious when using solvents then that is good advice. But suggesting that a solvent that has a higher PEL (Permissible Exposure Rating (expressed in PPM)) is no less hazardous than one with a lower PEL doesn't make sense.
Can you qualify this opinion with any articles?

It is a fact that MS, OMS and turpentine are classified as fire hazardous. It is a fact that all of these solvents mentioned carry a warning label. I am only aware of one manufacture, Gamblin stating on their containers of OMS has being "safer". If you know of another manufacture that claims their OMS is safer please provide the name.
Quote:
DANGER: COMBUSTIBLE or FLAMMABLE LIQUID & VAPOR HARMFUL OR FATAL IS SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN. SEE CAUTION STATEMENT


Yes, an artist should be cautious when using solvents but more important, they should be much more cautious of the advise they receive on solvents especially when only one source that I’m aware, a manufacture (Gamblin) makes the claim their solvent is safer based solely on aromatics.

The solvents in question, OMS and turpentine are classified as a fire hazard. OMS is rated as a combustible liquid while gum turpentine is rated as a flammable liquid. Funny thing, WN states on their containers of turpentine it is a “combustible”. In addition, gum turpentine from Utrecht that coincidently is also made in England and marked as a “combustible”.

Hazard vs. hazard are not always equal. Turpentine generally is a more hazardous liquid then MS because of it’s “flammable” rating not because of it aromatics as Gamblin seems to want to solely define hazardous as. Again, PEL is a regulatory system measured in PPM that arbitrary has set a limit of how much of a certain substance can be mixed in the air in a commercial environment within an 8 hour period.

Gamblin even includes the PEL count and “OMS is less toxic” statement on Gamsol products. This product also contain warnings that say “Vapor Harmful” on the same container. Which claim would you heed? It’s all too easy for an artist deciding well, since they claim a low PEL and that it is safer, I just use their Gamsol or maybe they ran out and picked up another OMS and use it without ventilation because it’s 20 degrees outside. I mean, if Gamblin is calling their OMS safer, then all OMS must be safe, right? Good luck with that one.

If my words don’t make you think and you just need more, well, then don’t worry about it. Believe what you must and forget the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblin – Gamsol
DANGER: COMBUSTIBLE LIQUID & VAPOR HARMFUL OR FATAL IS SWALLOWED. KEEP OUT OF THE REACH OF CHILDREN. SEE CAUTION STATEMENT

Gamblin’s warning is stated in caps.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:47 AM
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Ron Francis Ron Francis is offline
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Re: Is there such thing of a less smelling turpentine..???

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr001
Again, PEL is a regulatory system measured in PPM that arbitrary has set a limit of how much of a certain substance can be mixed in the air in a commercial environment within an 8 hour period. <snip>

Gamblin even includes the PEL count and “OMS is less toxic” statement on Gamsol products. This product also contain warnings that say “Vapor Harmful” on the same container. Which claim would you heed? It’s all too easy for an artist deciding well, since they claim a low PEL and that it is safer, I just use their Gamsol or maybe they ran out and picked up another OMS and use it without ventilation because it’s 20 degrees outside. I mean, if Gamblin is calling their OMS safer, then all OMS must be safe, right? Good luck with that one.
Flammability is a different issue as far as I'm concerned as I was purely asking about PEL, but OMS has a lower flash point regardless of what is on a label.
Whether or not you can trust the levels set by the OHS (Occupational Health and Safety), OMS has a comparably higher PEL level than turpentine. OHS set levels for both of these solvents, so no matter how hazardous they both are, having a higher PEL rating means that, for the same amount of time, you will inhale less OMS than turpentine.
I don't know what the Gamblin product rating is, but the Landgridge OMS I mentioned earlier has a rating of 1000 compared to turpentine's 100. This means that you can be exposed to it for 10 times longer before you reach the same toxicity limits of turpentine.
Of course you can argue that they are both hazardous, but I don't know how you can argue that they are equally hazardous.
“OMS is less toxic” and “Vapor Harmful” is not a dichotomy. OMS can be harmful as well as being less toxic.
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