Discussion: Gouache BRAND COMPARISON

[Deborah Secor]

I'm sure a few of us are reading this thread, even though it's old. I think gouache's habit of re-wetting and lifting is its most challenging aspect, but also the strength of the medium once you learn how to handle it. I would encourage you to put aside the desire to make it behave in ways it really isn't designed to, and embrace this characteristic, if you can. Your Talens brand is a good one, I think, and I don't know the W&N will behave any differently in this aspect. Underlying layers will lift and mix just as much, I expect, so I wouldn't suggest spending money if that's the reason for investing.

I've watched people fight the medium, desperately trying to isolate layers, and I suppose it can be done to some degree using a good layer of fixative sprayed on it or mediums mixed into the colors, as you mentioned. But if you let gouache do what it does well, and use that to your advantage, it can be remarkable. For instance, make some experimental charts where you lay down colors and let them dry thoroughly, then try using different colors over the top to see how the colors blend. How dry the layer beneath is (or not), and how wet (or not) the top layer is, can affect the mix. It's perfectly possible to use a dry brush over a dry area and have little or no resulting lift. One thing you can achieve in gouache is a perfectly re-blended area, and although it can be overworked and become a muddy color, with some sensitivity to the mix the colors may remain crisp and clear. A little advance planning helps.

Over in the Watercolor Studio there's a thread this month (Gouache Corner) where we're showing our work in progress (WIPs), so you can see some of the steps involved. Please take a look, if you haven't already. However, in last month's thread I posted this:

Originally Posted by Deborah Secor

Here are two layers to show you a little about how I made the color.



I wanted that watermelon glow of the Sandia range at sunset, but it was too brown and orange in that first pass. I had a hunch that layering the pinks and purples back over the mountain would work--and I think it did. It's a gorgeous color that's hard to capture sometimes. I also sweetened the colors of the greens, making them a little more blue, and changed the sky to a pink, lavender and pale blue combo that reads better in real life than here.

My usual little size, 2.5" x 3.5", on Bristol paper.

Maybe that's instructive. I hope so. But do come over to the Gouache Corner and take a look, and show us your work. There's a lot going on there, and you can also ask questions.

[Servant1976]

Hey Deborah,
Do the M. Grahams really attract insects or is that a joke? What about after they're dry? Could a painting on a wall or store away attract pests like food left lying around?

[JamieWG]

Originally Posted by Servant1976

Do the M. Grahams really attract insects or is that a joke? What about after they're dry? Could a painting on a wall or store away attract pests like food left lying around?

I hope you don't mind if I reply to this also. I was swarmed by bees last fall when doing this gouache painting out on my lawn with some of the M. Grahams on my palette. I'm going to reserve the ones I have for use in the studio. I'd just gotten a few tubes to test drive and it was my first (and last) time using them outdoors.

7.5x11, on Stonehenge


Jamie

[Deborah Secor]

Yep, as Jamie says the bees are attracted to them for real, but once dry they aren't. Honey is actually an ingredient in that brand.

Nice piece, Jamie!

[Servant1976]

Does the M.Graham gouache dry any slower (especially on the palette) than other brands because of the honey ingredient?

[Deborah Secor]

Not that I've noticed, Mike, but I haven't paid a lot of attention. Everything dries fast in the Land of No Humidity. I'll make a point of comparing when I can and let you know, but off the top of my head I'd say it's about the same.

[Servant1976]

Thanks, Deborah.

Here's another angle to this discussion. Does anyone know which brands are made in America? Since I regularly by art supplies I've tried to make this an issue so long as quality is not sacrificed.

[Deborah Secor]

M. Graham is USA made.

[DKB444]

Originally Posted by Servant1976

Does the M.Graham gouache dry any slower (especially on the palette) than other brands because of the honey ingredient?

I also use M Graham gouache which I am really enjoying. Where I live there is more humidity, and it does dry a little slower on my palette than the 2 DaVinci gouaches I recently added to try out some different colors! That is the only other brand I have on my palette so I hope this helps answer your question a little!

I have also noticed that the M Graham gouache seems to cover more opaquely than the DaVinci, so I end up using less paint.

[dbclemons]

Da Vinci Paint is a US brand.

[Servant1976]

Thanks for finding that out for me. I may finally try one of those brands after I use up my W&N. The other thing that attracts me about Da Vinci is that they're non-toxic. I'm about to have a little one running around here and I do think about that, not only for her but for my own health.

[Jbyrd117]

I've only used W&N and Holbein and I have to say that I like the Holbein more than the W&N paint. I initially purchased the W&N and I couldn't find a couple colors I needed for a class so I purchased those colors in Holbein and I regret not purchasing all of the colors in Holbein.

[walkaboutcamera]

In the Toronto area there is only one place that I am aware of that carries da Vinci gouache, Toose on College St., and that is a limited palette with no cads. However Da Vinci watercolours can be had, and Studio Six in Markham carries the entire line. Has any one had any experience using Da Vinci watercolour as gouache, in particular the cads?

[dbclemons]

I have a Da Vinci Cadmium Yellow Lemon as well as several other of their colors. They perform just like the gouache paints I have.

[JamieWG]

You have to be very careful of the Da Vinci gouache, and aware of what you're getting. For example, the only blues that aren't cut with white are Ultramarine and Phthalo. So, if you try to mix any dark colors using the other blues, you're going to run into problems. Also, the only red options are PV19 or PR188. If you like those, then you don't have a problem; but if you're more into cads and pyrrole reds, you have no options. The yellows are much more transparent pigments than cadmiums, which for me is a big issue for gouache. I don't see the point to working in gouache if I want to work transparently! The whole advantage to gouache over watercolor is that you can go opaque when needed. So personally, I am not particularly fond of the Da Vinci gouache lineup. I often combine transparent watercolor with opaque colors in gouache (especially for the lights), but have no use for transparent light gouache colors.

Jamie