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  #16   Report Bad Post  
Old 06-17-2011, 09:46 AM
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robertsloan2 robertsloan2 is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

I'd like to see them use the descriptions Daniel Smith does on the whole huge range of available pigments.

I don't mind seeing Hues, but want those described in terms of all their working properties. IE none of the Cadmium Hues are ever as opaque and aggressive as real Cadmiums, so depending on whether I want "that color" or "those properties" I'll use Cadmiums or not.

I want the description of each paint as detailed as possible, so I can put together a "glazing" range, a "staining" range, an "opaque" range and "transparent" range in what I'm doing.

I want quality binders and formulas that work consistently across all the types of paint. I want high pigment load and am willing to pay more for the more expensive pigments, if I'm going to be cheap I'll stick to Series I colors. I want lightfastness accurately labeled and tested in the actual product rather than just in the pigment's rating since it can be chemically affected by the binder.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:59 AM
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Termini. Termini. is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

The other thing that I would be interested in with regard to a paint line is price. Over the years I have had opportunity to purchase raw materials and make paint, as well as many other things. The thing that strikes me is the markup. When things are obtained in bulk, the prices a generally very economical. There is the added cost of the manufacturing process, tubes, packaging, shipping, etc, and that is understandable. However, some paints are marked up so high, that it defies reason. This is where the marketing is crucial for such manufacturers. I don't have a problem with manufacturers earning a profit, but when something is nine times the cost of the raw materials, something is askew. Therefore I would like to see paint priced more reasonably.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:41 PM
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Einion Einion is offline
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Note: I'd like to keep posts in this thread to the original subject as much as possible please and not have a lot of sideline discussions about related or tangential issues. Feel free anyone to start new threads on anything interesting that crops up.

Alex, I've split your last post off to a new thread as it's a subject worth its own discussion.

Jim, excessive profit or markups are also something worth going into. Maybe a good subject for a thread in Oil Painting given the degree to which this occurs in that medium?

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Old 04-26-2012, 10:19 PM
Agathalatham Agathalatham is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

I just joined this website forum. I am a Peruvian artist and love the art forums! I visited ur website really good! Like the expressions on them! I would like to share some of the art and little handcrafts I have been working in USA. malulatham.blogspot.com , u r more than welcome to visit my blog
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:14 AM
Bravethomas Bravethomas is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

Good info.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:07 AM
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Re: Fantasy paint league

OILS

Single pigments only that are well marked with Munsell number. Medium listed with walnut oil used where needed.

If convenience, mixed colours, are selling then market them in a separate line.

Pigment strength noted, this would require a chart. This would be useful when purchasing earth colours especially. For example I'd love to try some of the transparent earths but have no idea how strong they are. Also is there a stong Green Earth in any line?

Ultramarines in every chroma. A wider range of the earth colours.

No subjective descriptives on the labels.

Agree with what most of the comments here. Are the paint companies reading?
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:38 PM
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Gigalot Gigalot is online now
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Re: Fantasy paint league

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreen
OILS
Also is there a stong Green Earth in any line?
No strong Green earth minerals available in nature.
A good candidate to be a real, strong earth is Chromium Oxide green. Mother nature make a mistake and did not create natural deposits of this "mineral".
Natural chromium clay is rare, great color, Picasso love it, but, it is also weak, like natural Verona Celadonite or Glaukonite.

"Strong green earth" paints all are just fake imitations. A good one is a mixture of PR101 Transparent red iron oxide and Phthalo green PG7. Easy to mix.

Last edited by Gigalot : 10-01-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:16 AM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

My fantasy acrylic paint line would:
  • Use honey, not glycerin, to improve flow – honey seems superior in every way in acrylics, from keeping them moist longer to preventing paint separating from the binder.
  • Use sodium fluoride whenever possible – it's much less toxic than ammonia and doesn't smell as badly.
  • Always be sold in paint jars, not tubes, regardless of size – so we can add moisture to them again if we need to.
  • Avoid using extenders in paint itself as much as possible, except – maybe – in strong paints like Phthalos.
  • Sell calcium sulphate / carbonate with medium (or something equally effective) as separate extenders, so we can ourselves lighten color if we still want to while still keeping film stability – oh, and no tinting it with any color, even if it looks unattractive. Oh, and they would be strong as possible too.
  • Clearly show the pigments on the tube and describe them. I would say something about color names, but in most professional lines, acrylic naming convention is much better than in professional oil lines (just see Winsor & Newton's Oils and Acrylics naming scheme of each for comparison.)
  • Provide throughout documentation on how to keep acrylic paint film as stable as possible when painting.
And these apply to all types of paints (oil, acrylics, watercolor, gouache, etc.)
  • No masking natural umber colors with black or organic pigments to make them "deeper" or "more attractive." Natural umber may look very unattractive out of the tube, but it easily becomes highly chromatic and is a much better mixer. If they want to make hues of umber colors that have stronger tinting strength, improved color consistency, etc, colors must correctly name them as "hues" and each pigment listed on the tube.
  • No mixing mineral pigments in general with organic pigments to "boost" them (i.e, making them more attractive, saturated, and so on) unless this clearly described on the paint tube, specifying and describing each pigment code.

Last edited by Mythrill : 10-04-2013 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:23 PM
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Gigalot Gigalot is online now
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Re: Fantasy paint league

Organic-mineral pigment mixtures are present in student grade paints to make a "cheap cadmiums" or "cheap cobalts". And, who knows, how much cadmium and how much hansa by weight are in tube? Sure, those cadmiums are almost non=toxic!

Artist's grade paints are true cadmiums or cobalts. They assure us about this.

Last edited by Gigalot : 10-04-2013 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Mythrill Mythrill is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigalot
Organic-mineral pigment mixtures are present in student grade paints to make a "cheap cadmiums" or "cheap cobalts". And, who knows, how much cadmium and how much hansa by weight are in tube? Sure, those cadmiums are almost non=toxic!

Artist's grade paints are true cadmiums or cobalts. They assure us about this.

They sure do, Giga. Just like "Fra Angelico" doesn't have synthetic ultramarine or (phthalo blue) mixed into it!

I would prefer a cadmium-barium mix over a pure cadmium, though. It doesn't really affect color (only tinting strength,) and it makes cadmium much less toxic.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:12 AM
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jetflair jetflair is offline
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Re: Fantasy paint league

I'm happy with the quality of pretty much all the oil paints I've used. So I won't focus on that so much as.....

1. Pigment name and number are the color name.
2. One line for one-pigment colors, a separate line for convenience colors.
3. The largest possible line of single pigment colors
4. Very costly pigments available in smaller 20ml tubes to make them more affordable
5. As many "gemstone" colors as possible while affording quality. Genuine lapis, black spinel, hematite, malachite, etc.
6. Made with quality water-washed linseed oil, or linseed/walnut blend
7. Color painted on the label.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:50 PM
Bradicus Bradicus is online now
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Re: Fantasy paint league

My suggestions and requirements for "Einion Artist Grade Paint Co."

For refer, I only work in oils, so my list is based there.
I avoided actual colours, instead focusing on other important (to me) factors.

1) I would prefer a company that did not sell outside oil, acrylics, and watercolor. Focused on the materials, not brushes and linen.

2) I would like levels in consistancy. I dont mind if store rack has one set. But online, I could order my paint at stiffness level 4, etc. This alone, I believe, would open up a hugh range of customers. I dont use OH because its stiff. If it wasnt, I would probibly be using some. I realize one can soften it, I dont want to have to. Other want stiff: even very stiff.
Problem solved, choose level 2,4,6, or 8! EAGPC has got your back!

3) Very high quality paints. It doesnt need to be 'the best'. Reasonably upper middle priced, and quality to match. In the interest of making a point I will mention a competitor to EAGPC, Blue Ridge Paints. Very good quality with prices that dont include a 'brand mystique' tax.

4) Would prefer that for colours provided, if applicable, both shades are available. All ground to the same consistancy.

5) Must have a 'name' for each colour. Something historical, common, and/or romantic. Cerulean, viridian, vermilion, violet rose: they just roll off the tongue. There is room for cad yellow light, sap green, etc., too.
But if the tube name is "PR177": I not going to buy it...ever.*

6)Listed on tube the usual needed info, pigment number, oil- which is walnut-linseed, except where a pure clear oil, such as white is needed- and transparentency, etc.

7)*Non failing to meet LF2 or better. A creditable replacement for AC must be avail. A mix is acceptable.

8) Wide mouth caps on tubes.

9) And last: if a special colour/mix is requested, a quote for quanity vs price would be provided. Example would be 'Lavender Lake', pv15rs=30%, pr122=10%, and titanium white= uhhh, the rest.
Price to you from EAGPC; 1pc-40ml $700, 50pcs-40ml $42

Those are my suggestions.
I hope I kept to the spirit of the question.*
Enjoyed considering my anwsers.

With Kind Regards,
Brad

PS I'm available for beta testing.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:34 AM
Aspsusa Aspsusa is online now
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Re: Fantasy paint league

(I've so far painted too little to have take part in this excersize - I change my mind everytime I take up a brush. I hope comments are allowed here...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradicus
1) I would prefer a company that did not sell outside oil, acrylics, and watercolor. Focused on the materials, not brushes and linen.

There is actually a company like this: Golden-Williamsburg.
From what I heard the try-it-out set of their high flow acrylics with a few empty markers included was preceeded by _fierce_ internal debate whether this was straying too far into "materials not paint".

(Natural Pigments are also somewhat sparse in auxilliaries, but they do sell them. But at least when it comes to the brushes they carry maybe 10% of the applicable range from the manufacturer they use (German family firm), so one could say their assortment is fiercely curated.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradicus
2) I would like levels in consistancy. I dont mind if store rack has one set. But online, I could order my paint at stiffness level 4, etc. This alone, I believe, would open up a hugh range of customers. I dont use OH because its stiff. If it wasnt, I would probibly be using some. I realize one can soften it, I dont want to have to. Other want stiff: even very stiff.
Problem solved, choose level 2,4,6, or 8! EAGPC has got your back!

As I've understood it, this is almost impossible with oils if you want single pigment high quality paint. Because pigments behave differently.

*I* like your idea, I would love that. But unfortunately it seems that it is only the low end series that equalize consistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradicus
4) Would prefer that for colours provided, if applicable, both shades are available. All ground to the same consistancy.

Eh? Do you mean like Ultramarine red shade and green shade? Or do you mean something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradicus
8) Wide mouth caps on tubes.

This is a great idea! Or is it? Yes, because wide mouths => wide caps => easy to store standing on the cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradicus
9) And last: if a special colour/mix is requested, a quote for quanity vs price would be provided. Example would be 'Lavender Lake', pv15rs=30%, pr122=10%, and titanium white= uhhh, the rest.
Price to you from EAGPC; 1pc-40ml $700, 50pcs-40ml $42

Now that is an idea!
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:59 PM
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Re: Fantasy paint league

As Einion said "if you were making paint, what would you include?"
I did many self-made paints. I will try to use refined linseed oil with ~3-5% natural resin like Canadian Balsam, as an additive. I will try to add some Calcium Carbonate, probably 10-15% to most of my oil paints. For white and light paints I will also add Zinc White as a drier, for deep color I will add basic copper carbonate as a drier. I will add Zinc white to all of my safflower oil based paints. Safflower=Zinc. No Zinc = no Safflower oil.
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