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Old 01-16-2011, 10:12 AM
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Josef Sy Josef Sy is offline
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Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Hi,
This is a study I am doing of Anthony Van Dyck's Cornelis Ven Der Geest. The size is very close to the original.


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Old 01-20-2011, 04:09 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Hi to Josef,

Excellent work! Very, very impressive!

Just a couple of questions.

(1) What is the size of the painting (I could look up the size of the original Van Dyck, which is the same size, but I'm too lazy).

(2) I assume everything is in oil. How long did you let the second version dry, before you painted over it in the third version? The reason for my question is that, in the area of the eyes and nose, the second version looks like opaque paint, with a lot of white in it. I'm interested in the technique of how you painted over it.

(3) Have you now finished the eyes and the nose (as seen in the third version), or do you plan to make further refinements in those areas?

This is really good work! I look forward to seeing more!

Best regards,

Swifty Swift
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:50 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

HI Ibisbill,

Thanks for you compliment.
1. The size of the original painting is 32.5cm x 37.5 cm which is 12.8 x 14.75 in.
2. Yes, it is in oil. The 3 stages are done in 3 different days. I did not go over or painted over the from pic 2-3. Its because I color corrected the pic 3. The original picture was taken with flourescent lighting which usually makes skin tones much paler (less redor orangey). I might have painted over slightly but as I continue, I try to mix the same color tone to put beside the part I painted before. Takes a bit of trial and error but eventually it can be matched.
3. This stage (pic 2-3) is the 1st painting. The time to dry (touch dry) is overnight since I use very lean paint. I use just the oil from the paint tube and a bit of turps to mix the paint. Also to help the paint flow easier off the brush.
I will do another pass which is the 2nd painting. I will use a bit more medium or oil in the paint so the paint is thinner. I use poppy seed oil which yellows less than Linseed oil.

The eyes and nose I will probably retouch them on the 2nd painting. The color is off and the drawing too. During the 1st painting, I try to be accurate as possible and if I am off in some areas I will go in and redraw with the right color or tone.

The technique Van Dyck used was Venetian I think. There is a lot of variations of technique which are very close or silimar to Venetian. btw the pic 1 is a raw umber wash drawing stage. Basically its a monochrome painting. Burnt umber can be used too which I think it is used in this painting. And usually there is a dead color stage which is very thick opaque paint and it is not blended so it looks like a mosaic. I am skipping that stage.

After 2nd painting is the glazing and toning. Sometimes glazing/ toning is not necessary everywhere in the painting. But the final stage gives that museum look.

I hope I answered your questions. I will try to complete the 1st painting stage.

Cheers,
Josef
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:20 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

An update...
I am reposting the ones before too. I find the resizing blurred them...
Attached Images
    
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

great work !! ... love that you are posting it as a wip ... that is so informative for us ... keep up the great work !!
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Old 02-07-2011, 12:41 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Superb! Love the warm colorful creation here! Hey...kind of hard to tell, but is your underground paint a green pigment, Raw, or Burnt Umber? Good job!
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:09 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Thanks Violet, Nelson.

Nelson, the underpainting is raw umber.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:33 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

awesome work
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:51 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Hello Joseph,

This is really well-done. You know what you are doing, skin tones, drawing and expression are all spot-on from the beginning, impressive.

Van Eyck was an outstanding portrait painter, his portraits are elegant as well as sensitive. I have seen his Self-portrait as a young man in Munich.

I have just looked up your other work here at Wetcanvas, it is all exceptional. Seems like your preferred medium is pastel, it is surprising to me that you are euqually proficient in oil painting. Maybe the two media are not as different as I think.

I hope you will show us the finished piece
Susanne

Last edited by Marigold : 02-24-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:11 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Thanks azulparsnip.

Thanks Susanne. Pastels and oils are quite different. Pastels you got to have the right amount of pastels (different values of browns, yellows, reds, etc.) Oils you can mix colors (different values) the way you want. Pastels you can mix but it is very limited.

I read a bit of your thread "lacemaker" on supports. The problem of paint "sliding" is probably caused by too fat or too much oil. After it dries, it gives it a sheen, slippery surface and is not very absorbant. *Quick fix is to add a bit of retouch varnish to your paint mixture. Ideally, you have to paint from lean to fat meaning the early stages of the painting has less oil and increases as the next layers are added.

I sometimes use masonite with a few coats of rabbit skin glue. I prefer smooth prepped surface personally. I saves me the headache later when I do details. Actaully it depends on the size of your painting, the details, how big they are. I have seen tiny paintings and have plenty of details.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:03 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Here is an update. I did the hair. The bulk of the 1st painting is done. There is still some color issues on the ears, left cheek in the shadow side and the ruffles which is too white or too light in value.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:18 AM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Hello Joseph,

looking good, I would call this a very successful study. I looks finished to me but it will be good to see what difference you can make with your last tweaks and changes.

I was looking at a reference of the original painting, I am wondering how Van Dyck painted those single white hairs. They are very natural-looking and good accents to the portrait, but they look so crisp and white, I could only do this with a white charcoal stick, never with oil color

Thanks for your comment on the smooth ground - it is not a problem for me in layered paintings like the lacemaker. Only when I want to paint alla prima I found out I needed a surfurface with more grip. I do rarely use oil in my paint, and never in the first layer.

Susanne

Last edited by Marigold : 03-01-2011 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:20 AM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Thanks Susanne. It looks finished and I could leave it as is. There might not be a significant difference in the look over all after the tweaks here and there. It is not major changes.

yes, I was wondering that myself about the hair. He might have painted it later after the painting is dry or do it wet on wet. Its is much harder to do it wet on wet. (Which I did) But the hair area is much thinner paint and doing wet on wet is possible. I think Van Dyck did some wet on wet and some after the painting dried. You can see the mark on the right side of the original painting.

The trick on highlights in hair is be careful of the value putting down as a highlight. It might look very white or light in value but remember that hair is very matte and textured (microscopically) so it does not reflect back a lot of light. Unless it is wet.
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:43 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

List of things to fix...

•overall color of the skin is much too yellow.
•lips are too red and saturated. (the hard copy ref was that color I swear! lol)
•Some shadow areas need to be punched up.
•frills or ruffles value need to be toned down and detail added.
•Hignlight on the nose needs to be toned down.
•transition tone between the left eyebrow and forehead.
•Hair details needs some tweaks.
•cast shadow under the nose.
•ears needs more modeling.

original vs copy comparison
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:47 PM
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Re: Master copy/study - Van Dyck

Here is the image...

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