Problems with Bachelor of Fine Arts at my University..

[Emma Llewelyn]

Hi all,

I am currently in my second year of a Bachelor of Fine Arts in NSW Australia, and I am hating the course.

I am very much a traditional, realist artist, and I came to Uni hoping to learn new techniques like colour theory, composition, tones and values etc. Instead what I got was a complete lack of instruction in the theory of practical art. We study Art History, only modern art, and only their concepts not their techniques. Im my prac classes we learn a lot about concept and ideas, and then are left to paint and draw as best we can with no instruction. Its not just that I'm wasting so much money on no teaching, they also won't let me work how I want. The lecturers are all into modern art, loving abstraction etc. They mark the works purely subjectively. For example I was told today that I couldn't do landscape for my major project purely because my lecturer doesn't like landscape, he thinks its too easy. I brought in a portrait I'd done, it was a commission that sold for a reasonable amount of money so its not like it was badly drawn. My teacher said it looked too much like a photo and so was boring, so I had to start again with a different subject. I'm not even allowed to work in my medium of pastels, because they consider only oils, acrylics, watercolour, sculpture and textiles to be worthy of majoring in. They say Modern Art frees the artist, but I'm finding it very restrictive.

And the work their method of teaching [or lack thereof] is producing is of shocking quality, outside the uni in a regular art competition it wouldn't even get a second glance. I get that some people like Modern art and disgregarding all the artistic techniques that we have developed over the centuries, but you have to know the rules first to break them. And surely its better to instruct us in these techniques and those that want to ignore them can, that is easier to do than learn them with no help..

I turned up to my first painting class of the semester today, and was told we will spend 2 months on collages.. I'm sure collages are great for those who are interested in that type of thing, but I don't see how glueing magazine cut outs will benefit my painting in any way..

Is this a normal experience of University Fine Arts, or is this just my institution? I can't change to a different Uni as I'm doing a double degree here, so I guess I have no choice but to stick with it, and then maybe find more suitable art instruction once I graduate. It just seems such a waste of time and money, but I don't see what I can do about it.

Sorry to rant I'm just very frustrated at the moment...

[kevinwueste]

It is NOT necessarily a "normal" art school experience but there is so much variation that what is normal is hard to quantify. I spent 2.5 years at the Academy of Art in San Francisco, and, in 2 years you WILL understand ( depending on how much you apply yourself) values, perspective, proportion, color theory, composition, how to draw a human figure realistically, how to paint one, how to paint a still life/landscape etc., I am now in a 1 year program with an artist named Anthony Ryder ( google him if you like).. though will likely do some more work after this year..

get out of there and get thee to a good school ! - feel free to write me a note (pm) if you want to discuss this more - good luck!

Kevin

[Denni]

I can so relate to everything you are saying about the teaching (or lack of) in art school. I am only at tafe and we have had an excellent lecturer replaced recently with a new one who is exactly like what you describe the teaching at Uni to be. She seems more concerned with research of other artists ideas, our use of the English language, grammar in our essays and the 'concept' of the art, rather than the actual 'art' itself. I don't understand why the 'visual' look of the art seems irrelevant, but the more you can waffle on about a concept is what matters. I know that its great to have a concept behind the art but I also believe art should be more intuitive rather than pre- planned, so you can put feeling and emotion into it. I also believe that everyones approach to it differs and thats the beauty of art, that we are all individuals with unique ideas and ways of approaching our work.... and if we like painting the traditional way and don't think much to modern art, we shouldn't be made to feel that its wrong.
Before I joined tafe, I did some art classes at a local art store and my art improved a lot as I was taught some good techniques. I joined tafe to gain a qualification and now cant wait for this year to end as then I will pursue art in my own way and go to the local places who teach technique.
We don't need to be taught how to think of ideas...we already have them.

I think to not teach proper technique in art is like a dance teacher focusing only on choreography and not the technical ability of the dancer.

Good luck

[PiscesWoman]

Sounds to me like you are stuck on Realistic style of painting. Probably since you were young everyone said how well you draw and paint. But now you are being challenged to open up your mind and style and be adventurous and it sounds like you are afraid to even try - perhaps 'fear of failure' is taking grip - now that you are into 2nd year they will expect you to open up and explore art, not just stick to what you know.

If you actually try the exercises set before you by your tutors/lecturers you will discover that they DO help with furthering your knowledge of colour, control of paint, perspective, etc. You just have to participate and try your best in whatever style is set for you to do and you will discover the benefits and be able to relate them to your preferred style. But you have to want to learn. If you don't think you will learn anything from the exercise, then you won't because your mind is closed. University is about learning many new things. Perhaps if there is something specific you need to ask, then ask - but if your course is anything like the course I am doing, it is all about experimentation and learning by discovery.

Collage is a good exercise for getting back to basics about, form, line, colour, composition and framing - but cutouts from magazines, wow, is that your thought or what your lecturer specifically said. You or your lecture need to start thinking 'outside the box' . And collage is quite hard to do successfully. I don't mean the sticking on to a support , I mean making an interesting composition that will 'grab and keep someone's interest'.

Anyway, enough from me. But honestly, if the course is making you so unhappy and you are not in the frame of mind to learn what they have to offer, see if you can take 12 months off and do something else for 12 months, then come back and give it a 2nd shot - or drop out completely and let someone else have a go. No point wasting your money or working up a tax debt if you feel you aren't achieving anything.

I know that without seeing my body language, words on a screen can seem a bit distant and harsh, so I giving you lots of to let you know I am only trying to get you to see what you could be missing. I sometimes feel like tearing my hair out doing my own studies but it is usually during the height of my frustrations that the light-bulb goes on and I see the whole point of the exercise set before me. (And then I feel a bit stupid for not seeing it from the beginning and I groan about "well, why didn't they just say that to start with" but all the best lessons are learned with our own discoveries - it just takes longer with some of them!)

[thevirtualinstructor]

YOU are paying for your education. It should prepare to make a living at your craft. If abstraction is not how you plan to make your living, then leave that school. I do see the merit in modern art and progressive ways of thinking, but we now live in era of different art styles and there is room for everyone-including traditionists. Perhaps many of your teachers can't teach you the basics of traditional art creation because they can't do it. Go to a different school and major in Illustration.

[LGHumphrey]

I agree with Matt.

[fieldarchy]

It sounds like you are not getting what you want out of your education and that's unfortunate. I was a bit scared when I started my program last semester because most of the artists coming out of U of North Texas seem to like the andy worhol style of painting and creating. Also there's a huge emphasis on the design programs (fashion, interior and comm) and I want to enter the Drawing and Painting program. So far they've stressed drawing what you see and the painting classes seem to follow the same. They stress this because like you said, you have to know all of the rules before you can break them. And they give us lots of freedom to work how we want which is great. My drawing teacher this semester walks around and will tell us if there's a shadow or proportion that needs fixing. But otherwise she lets us use the media and techniques we want.

Definitely try to find a school that matches your interest otherwise you won't be happy in the end at all. I speak from experience on this . . . this is not my first degree.

[WFMartin]

At our art club meetings, we always hire a guest artist to give a presentation, and to explain their art.

We once had a professional artist who used a wonderful, realistic, glazing technique. He explained that he had gone to school, and had a degree in art, but had to learn how to quite literally "do painting" on his own, after he had been graduated from that school. He explained that at art school, they seemed much more interested in trying to teach how to "live the lifestyle of an artist," and to "act like an artist," than how to actually perform the operations involved with oil painting.

He mentioned that perhaps his methods may not be the most sound, in terms of materials, and methods, simply because he had never been actually taught to paint, and that he had to learn how to paint on his own.

Comments such as these, and that of the original poster on this thread have made me very glad that I got my Bachelor of SCIENCE (not art) degree many years ago, because it has provided me with the credentials to teach, and that I have learned how to oil paint (realistically) on my own, by sifting the logical applications from the nonsense, of which there is plenty of both on the internet.

[Gardavkra]

On the positive side, even with abstract art, you should still learn composition, color theory, design, etc. You won't find much instruction when it comes to painting technique but, you can apply what you know to any kind of art. Modern art may not be your cup of tea and that's fine. After you graduate, you can focus on traditional art and may even gain more of an insight into it. At least you will have a good foundation of which to build. Since you have a double major and won't be able to go to another school, perhaps you'll just have to make the most of it. You can always drop the double major and focus on your other major also.

[dave da vinci]

I totally sympathise! The UK higher education system is totally skewed towards modern, coneptual approaches. Institutions like the Slade used to be power houses of rigorous technical and intellectual training but the emphasis seems to have totally shifted. The thing is, if you WANT to based yourself in realism then why on earth shouldn't you. Don't be deterred by the 'experts' at university who seem more concerned with the theoretical debates surrounding art than anything else. If you want to develop your technical skills then darn well make sure you do.

I was fortunate to find a university in the UK that still embraced realistic/figurative painting and drawing. We were left to our devices but there was also a relatively thin diet of technical training too (life drawing, painting techniques etc). To be honest though, most of my own personal development as an artist has come since leaving university. You really can't beat self learning because it's driven by your own interests and passions. I've read so many books, watched plenty of art DVDs and of course, spent probably an unhealthy amount of time at the easel! All this has to fit in with the day job too (

The UK has a few gems of institutions that teach in the more traditional way of painting ateliers from the past. These include places like Heatherleys in London that offer 2 year diplomas in portraiture. The USA seems really well equipped in this area too (San Francisco and New York seem to have some really good ones). If you don't want to change course you could always try to seek out places where you can dip into their teaching programs. Heatherley's have open studios with tutoring and also weekend/evening courses. Maybe there's somewhere similar near you. Whatever the case, don't doubt your own judgement in terms of what you want to do with your art. Just because our 'educators' are besotted with modern, conceptual art doesn't mean we have to follow in their footsteps. In many ways, it's more rebellious to be a realist these days!!

[Genza]

are you studying at sca or cofa by any chance, fairyfloss? I'm studying at cofa 2nd yr... maybe i know you 0_0. I know how you feel btw... good luck, i hope you find what makes you happy!

[Genza]

oops nevermind, i just realized you study at wollongong. still closeby i guess..

[lqualls628]

its not much different here in the states. they simply tell you what they want you to do and give you some examples. its up to the student to figure out how to use the materials and methods needed to finish a product. i can honestly say that i've pretty much taught myself everything i know about art. To some extent in certain fields i'm actually better than my professors. It's pretty sad really. It seems that since the arts aren't highly funded in modern society that instruction has become very lazy. Artist that couldn't make it in the real world. Get there degree and get a power trip on torturing there students by forcing them to do a bunch of crap that has no explanation. Come on. As artist we are supposed to be free to explore all aspects of the imagination. Plus if we are paying your salary, then why don't you step up to the plate and actually teach something. .....still waiting. Don't think its gonna happen anytime soon. Thank god for places like Wet canvas for the up and coming artist that are pretty much thrown out in the cold with out a clue as to what they are gonna do with their degree. Good Luck in school. Try to break the boundaries and look for loop holes to fit in your own stuff. It really ticked my professors off when I did this, you know for pretty much every assignment, but their requirements were met so they really couldn't penalize me. Stick it to the man. Yeah. LOL

[Use Her Name]

This is actually a common complaint. I've known of some art students who could not draw or had absolutely no skills but could BS their way in with an amazing admission essay, or "artist's statement." I've always been ultra suspicious of artist's statements.

Where I went, they left the subject to the student, and were more interested in the perfection of technique, and experimentation with the various techniques they taught. So I could make realistic pictures of people or whatever if I wanted to. They graded according to the student's understanding of the technical aspect, because there was no way to base a grade on the subjective. I would be highly suspicious of a school where the teacher's "preference" was the basis for a grade.

I don't know your curriculum, but generally for the first 2 years, there are a lot of thought exercises. I am surprised that you are not taking the 101-102 type classes: Life drawing, design and so on.

I have no advice about what you should do. I think if you are disatisfied with a school, you should leave it. The unfortunate fact is that you sometimes must take a school for a test drive before you commit to it. Some people consider this "quitting" but being unsatisfied with what you are getting for your money is a big red alarm, in my understanding.

You need to listen to your own heart on this. You know you are being taken for a ride, and paying a lot of money for it, and you know what to do about it.

In this economy, I think (if I were smart) I would have gone for something that would give me some skills to start a job and be useful in art as well. Business management, or maybe marketing.

[guineverec]

I can sympathise and I know my husband can as well. In fact, I think a lot of artists can - have you seen 'Art School Confidential'? A lot of that is basically a parody on the exact experience you're describing. I started out as an art major in my US university (double art & psychology - it wasn't an art school and I thought at first that this was the problem, that it was an art section in an academic institution not specialising in art) and I ended up dropping the art part of it because I didn't feel like I was learning anything new, other than to be as pretentious as possible. My art history classes were very little about history and more about psychoanalysing dead artists. I hated it. My husband (who went to an actual art school here in the UK) had a similar experience, although slightly in the opposite direction. They did like "modern art", but when my husband tried to break out of the mold a bit and combine painting with some conceptual stuff, the instructors balked and basically wanted him to paint EXACTLY like them. In fact, whenever we go to the degree show or other art shows in town (same town where his art school is), we always can immediately identify the ____ School of Art style - because it's always the same, and always exactly the same as one of the instructors at the school.

I think the problem with art school is that it's so subjective, and people like what they like, and that includes the instructors. So if you do something that contradicts their particular likes, then tough luck to you. I don't know if there are art schools where you will have a better experience or not - I think it probably depends largely on the individual instructors. My husband had one or two instructors who did actually teach him techniques, so although the vast majority of art school was spent wrestling with ornery teachers, he did leave with a little bit of actual technical knowledge he could take forward into his own particular style, and that was solely down to a couple of individual teachers, although the school as a whole was bent on coralling him into their particular style cult.

Given that I'm largely a self-taught artist, I am a bit biased in thinking that art school can only teach you so much, even the best of them. I do believe in talent, and I do believe that it's something that you can teach yourself, by watching videos of people you do admire painting, experimenting, reading books, etc. Mainly though it's just going to come down to practicing and trying things out, which you can do without shelling out all that money to an art school. One thing I think that art school does have going for it is the artistic community - being around other creative people in itself fosters creativity, I think, so that's a plus going for it.

I don't think that doing collage for 2 months is going to hurt, or being forced to try any of the other things that your art school seems to be foisting upon you. Although you know your particular style, no artist is ever hurt by trying out something completely alien to them. It doesn't mean you have to keep doing it for the rest of your life, but trying it won't hurt. That said, it needs to be balanced with some of what you DO want to specifically learn, and if you're not getting any of that, it might be worth your while to look around at other art schools where the culture is different (try talking to previous/current students of these schools to make sure you get an idea of what their experience was in these schools) or maybe at ways you can teach yourself. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Use Her Name

I've always been ultra suspicious of artist's statements.

Ha! Me too! In my school, the art history majors and the art practice majors were always in conflict over this. The art historians could always BS and talk such a load of pretentious verbal diarrhea, but when they came in for the actual painting classes, they could hardly hold a paintbrush. The really good art practice people tended to hate our art history classes, where it was all talk and no actual doing - they saw it for what it was, talking the talk but not walking the walk.