Questions re WMO

[Cherylal7]

Hello!
I have only been painting for about a year with acrylics and now want to begin with WMO. I've decided on W&N and will be acquiring paints, etc very soon.

I have two questions now, (1) for anyone doing impasto with WMO, have you used the WMO impasto medium or do you just use just paint; and (2) if you paint with acrylics and oil (or WMO) do you use separate sets of brushes?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get further into WMO. I love WetCanvas for all the interesting paintings and for all the helpful advice!

Thanks much and have a great day,
Cheryl

[DaveGhmn]

Have fun with your venture.

W&N Artisan tends to be a stiffer formulation than most, so you might think about adding Artisan thinner, and experimenting with such Artisan mediums as the Painting Medium (stand oil + thinner).

Artisan in my experience are very sensitive to water as a thinner. It's almost as though the colors clot. If you thin with water, I suggest using a fine-spray spritzer -- you probably already have one that you've used with your acrylics. A tiny spritz on the palette, mixing Artisan into it, seems to work best (or even a spritz on the canvas).

The Artisan Impasto medium has had some bad reviews for a markedly granular behavior. The tubes that I have used have NOT shown this, so it seems to be luck of the draw. The impasto medium contains a drying agent and so speeds up drying (some of the Artisan colors, particularly yellows and white, take a LONG time to dry if not accelerated by a drier).

Dual use of brushes should not be a problem.

Disclaimer: a while ago, I switched from Artisan to Lukas Berlin because I wanted a looser, more buttery paint (a personal preference) and because Berlins are less expensive.

[dbclemons]

Regarding brushes, most are sold as "oil and acrylic" to be used either way. The reasoning behind keeping them separate is mainly based on the way they are built. Since oil paintss tend to be heavier and thicker as they come from the tube, a sturdier brush is generally recommended to support pushing the paint around. This does not mean you shouldn't use a softer brush with oils or a firm brush with acrylics since the paints can vary by brand or what additives you use. If you want a fine fluid line of paint with oils it will be harder to do that with a stiff brush. If you're shoveling thick impasto, it will quickly wear out a soft brush.

A second concern with mixing brushes is the worry that any oil left in the hairs will come off in the acrylic paint, causing problems. It's unlikely any dried acrylic will come off in the oil. However, this problem is negated by proper cleaning of the brush.

Another point often raised is that natural hair brushes will get frizzy when used constantly with water. This is absurb. If it were true no one would use natural hair brushes with watercolors. It isn't the water that's the problem, it's the cleaner, i.e. using harsh soaps or solvents. Just clean the brush gently, carefully, and properly and they'll last a long time.

One last point, acrylic "gesso" primers can be brutal on brushes due to the course solids that are often included in them, typically marble dust, to make them porous enough to use as a ground for oil paint. I would recommend using only cheap and/or stiff brushes with the inital layer of paint if you're painting on an acrylic primer.

[Cherylal7]

Thank you DaveGhmn and dbclemons for for the information. I'm looking forward to receiving my new outdoor easel and the WMO paints for a class I'm scheduled for in June. I want to practice with both before the class.
And learn to use a palette knife! The class will be taught with exclusive use of the knife. So, I have forsworn the brushes until after the class.
I'm very excited and thank you very much for your advice!
Cheryl

[DaveGhmn]

Interesting. I'm also taking an knife-based workshop in the first week of May and am also getting to know my knives better.

The artist giving the workshop recommends a knife that to me seems stiff, Creative Mark T7 from Jerry's Artarama, 2 1/2" blade. We'll be working on 16 x 20 and 12 x 16 panels.

Quite a while ago, I scored a set of 9 Loew-Cornell painting knives, very supple and flexible. I have gotten used to working with these, and right now the new-to-me stiffer type is outside my comfort zone. I didn't think there would be much difference in wielding them, but there is.

So - good luck to both of us!

[mickeyw3340]

Don't thin with water. Get the thinner that WN made for the product. Use water only for clean up.

[Thinky]

Hi Cheryl, Congratulations on starting WMO paints. I have never used impasto medium, but it sounds good to use. Brushes can be used for both. I love Winsor Newton Artisan, it's really excellent. I have been using it for the past 5 years or so. Have fun and hope to hear about your new adventures.

[Cherylal7]

DaveGhmn - I started with plastic knives and am not comfortable with a more flexible metal knife that I have.
It will just take practice with all. Of course, I've already broken one plastic knife getting too enthusiastic with it.
I will be in your state, on Cape Cod for the workshop. I've never been to the Cape so I'm looking forward
to that and to the class itself. And I just got a new french half box easle (it just arrived last night!) and I can't wait to
try painting outdoors.

mickeyw3340 - I will remember not to use water to thin. And that will be one less thing to carry outdoors with me. Thanks!

Thinky - I'm not sure I'll need the impasto medium for the WMO, but I'm sure I should have it just in case! I'm going to order paints, etc pretty soon.
Now that I have the new easel I'll try using my acrylics for outdoor painting until the WMO arrives.

Now all I need is more time for painting! Thanks to you all!

[DaveGhmn]

Hmm - Cape workshop in June -- any chance it's the John Clayton's plein air workshop at Provincetown Art Association & Museum? If so, I'm taking his Apr1-May4 workshop also at PAAM!

[sarastar]

I love the impasto medium, I mix it into white to get a good raised effect that holds the brush strokes it is also fairly fast drying.

[Cherylal7]

Hey DaveGhmn, the workshop I am attending is Jun 4-8 with Hilda Neily at the Cape School of Art. Landscape Basics.
I am so excited. I'm so excited that I'm thinking of trying something I read about on Wet Canvas. Someone, in one of the forums suggested painting every morning first thing for 15 minutes for 365 days straight.
This sounds like a pretty big challenge and commitment....I usually only paint one night a week and most weekends. Anyway, I look forward to all of it. I ordered paints last night and they should be here Tuesday!
I hope to experience painting en plein air next weekend!

sarastar - I'm going to try the paints alone first to see how that goes and I suspect I'll get the impasto medium very soon.
I look forward to trying it.

I hope everyone has a great weekend!
Cheryl

[DaveGhmn]

Oho - you've gone clear to the top. Neily was one of John Clayton's primary teachers. More importantly, she studied with Henry Hensche at the original Cape School of Art for many years. Well done!

[DaveGhmn]

Meanwhile, here's a dynamite write-up of Henry Hensche's approach to color study: http://blueridgeoilpaint.blogspot.co...lor-study.html

One thing you have to understand if you want to get past the first few pages: The Cape Cod School of Art was a religion and Henry was the High Priest. No student of his who has gone on to teach or write about the Cape School Approach will abide any other student who has done the same. Each one has created a denomination and has declared all the others anathema.

The author of the monograph linked here is George 'Tommy' Thurmond, a Mississippi artist who studied under Hensche. His anathema gun has a hair trigger, so you'll find him whipping the weapon out of its holster and making the wayward reach for the sky, pardner, right in the middle of a great exposition of technique or practice.

By way of background, many disciples of Hensche never moved beyond in-your-face tube colors, including Susan Sarback and Lois Griffel. The latter accepted the Cape School basically as a gift from Hensche and then would not give it back when somebody got the aged Hensche to come to his senses and ask for it back. Later, she closed the school and sold the grounds, or somebody did. Neither of these actions make her Numero Uno among Cape enthusiasts.

Thurmond's thesis is that the in-your-face colors were the early learning stage. You do it so that you can begin to see how color works on the canvas. You are supposed, Thurmond says, to move beyond that to more realistic color, but with a new depth of understanding.

Meanwhile, back to the monograph... after a while, the preaching gets old, but there is a tremendous amount of information in the work.

[Cherylal7]

DaveGhmn,
I have already read Hensche on Painting and the Hawthorne book edited by his wife. I enjoyed both very much and found some inspirational passages.

Also, since I posted last I have received my WMO paints and have embarked on the 15-min-a-day, every-day, painting improvement project. The 15 minutes usually manages to become almost an hour, but I'm not complaining. And I hope that this weekend I can try my first en plein air experience! Of course it will just be the block study and will probably be in my back yard. I hope the weather is nice!

I've enjoyed using the W&N WMO paints though I find them inconsistent.
Some of he paints are so thick (compared with the acrylics) that they do not want to come out of the tube. Some are easier. But I do not think they are old, they appear fresh. And I find I am back at the beginning again. I do not yet seem to be able to mix enough paint to accomplish the task and I'm having trouble getting my colors right. Issues I experienced with acrylics at first. But It's only been a week. Last night I added my first drop of oil to some raw sienna and was happy to try it and happy to see that it was not too much. Such simple things it takes to please me these days!

Of course, I'd be happier if my paintings were coming out better. I painted a lighthouse over the weekend and did a terrible job of it (my first completed WMO work). And now I'm painting an autumn tree with beautiful yellow gold leaves. Not sure yet how this one is going. Yesterday I was ready to scrape it all off, but I did not. I can report that I am becoming more comfortable painting with the knives. (I have several. I'm like a fisherman faced with a beatiful new lure!)

So, I have 6 more weeks to practice before the workshop at the Cape.
If only I'd felt this way about homework when I was in high school!

I hope your painting is going well!
More later, Cheryl

[DaveGhmn]

Originally Posted by Cherylal7

DaveGhmn,
I have already read Hensche on Painting and the Hawthorne book....

Still and all, Tommy Thurmond's monograph has some good detail on the Cape School process in a practical sense. It includes a couple of the handouts from the school itself, among them diagrams showing how to divide surfaces geometrically as a guide for looking for color spots. There are a couple of comparative studies by Hensche that show his progression from the 1920s through the 1970s.

It also gives the full (21!) color palette used by the school. And a 2-page set of pictures on using the knife... though Tommy has knifed paint all over the instructions scrawled over the canvas... makes you wonder...

I've enjoyed using the W&N WMO paints though I find them inconsistent.
Some of he paints are so thick (compared with the acrylics) that they do not want to come out of the tube. Some are easier....

Yes, sadly, this is the experience of many of us. I have a 200ml tube of Artisan lemon yellow so stiff that I can barely get any out of the tube.

Still, when used with the Artisan mediums (as you're doing), they serve quite well.