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Old 06-22-2003, 07:20 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is online now
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Little Landscape WIP...in acrylic...



was at this location a couple weeks ago and painted a plein air oil. This was my scene while setting up....but, the sun slipped down behind a ridge and all was cast in somber shadow soon as I was ready to go.

So...thought for fun I'd do a little 8" x 10"...

I have a bunch of pieces going to gallery end of next week, and have one extra frame sittin' around. So...I'll post my blockin here, my simple palette, and then my finished piece.

Used one soft synthetic sable 1/4" brush and pushed paint around rather quickly. Had to...I'm batchin' it today and next week and had a couple steaks out on the grill. So...I managed to block in the masses (all that you see here) in about 15 minutes.



Within the next day or so..I should find time to refine and get this piece done. Looks quite loose now...but I'll tighten it up quite a bit.

I favor a warm wooden palette with my oils...but acrylics,well... its just too doggone convenient just to grab a styrofoam plate and put some paint on. A warm and cool blue, a warm red and warm yellow, phtalo green...plus white. No black, darks are mixed. I use Winsor & Newton Galeria paints in the 200 ml flip top plastic bottles.




Larry

Last edited by LarrySeiler : 06-22-2003 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 06-22-2003, 09:14 PM
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Looks like you have a great start. Can't wait to see the final.
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Old 06-22-2003, 11:47 PM
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Lookin good so far.
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Old 06-23-2003, 12:56 AM
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Thanks...

I just think its amusing to see how they start so simple in form and block in...to where they'll finish...

g'niter!

Larry
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Old 06-23-2003, 06:36 PM
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It's great!!! Bring in the finished one....
and im so glad to see that im not the only one who's using paper plates as palettes...
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Old 06-24-2003, 02:56 PM
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Plate

Hi Larry

First off I really like you work. Great stuf you do.

Now!!

Using that syrofoam plate how you go about keeping the acrylics from drying out.

I have had major probs with the drying out and ready to pack acrylics in. Ticking me off it is.And Im just trying to get started in painting. Im messing with Watercolor, Oils and Acrylics to find what medium I wish to lean to if not all three. But I tell ya, acrylics I am finding not to friendly.

Any tips on keeping them nice and juicy??


Tnx
Johnnie
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Old 06-24-2003, 06:53 PM
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Hey Johnnie....I'll mention more later...but I'm about to run out and play a bit of tennis, so here's an update on the work, and will address your questions a bit later! Take care,

I squinted my eyes...which is my habit...and started by applying warm pure color Cadmium yellow and some hansa at various places, to suggest the brilliantly lit areas-



then I worked into the shadows mixing some pthalo green, a bit of white (which lightens but also cools and shadows are cool), a touch of crimson red to control the darkening of the green values I wanted. Worked in some darker shadows...



Built up the light areas once again to be stronger statement, balanced out the shadows, and then used sky color to apply principles of negative space to shape and sculpt the tree shapes, sky poking thru and so forth. I mixed a bit of yellow into the lighter values of the sky mix to add to that penetrating low sun light influence-



here you see a closeup of that treeline, and see how placing simple marks in just the right places suggest trees. I decided a long time ago to forget thinking about trees in terms of species. Artists see shapes and color, light and dark and so forth, so I just worry about catching the character of values and shapes poking thru masses and the result is they look like trees...



and now...here's where the painting is at to this point. You can see I applied some paint in the distant trees to push them back as well-



More another day. Busy framing a lot of work right now...
later, peace...

Larry
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:12 AM
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Re: Plate

Quote:
Originally posted by Johnnie
Hi Larry

First off I really like you work. Great stuf you do.

Now!!

Using that syrofoam plate how you go about keeping the acrylics from drying out.

I have had major probs with the drying out and ready to pack acrylics in. Ticking me off it is.And Im just trying to get started in painting. Im messing with Watercolor, Oils and Acrylics to find what medium I wish to lean to if not all three. But I tell ya, acrylics I am finding not to friendly.

Any tips on keeping them nice and juicy??


Tnx
Johnnie

Johnnie,

I have a masterson sta-wet palette. I love it! Sometimes it makes my paint too juicy... They make them in a large studio size and a small portable (plein aire) size. Check it out.
There are some homemade versions. Try searching wetcanvas for "sta-wet palette" or something similar. I'm sure there has been discussions on this before.

I had a tepid feeling for acrylics before I started using the sta-wet, now I love'em (especially since I have no tolerance for the chemicals, smells of oils - I'm asthmatic, and not enough patience for the drying time).

Cheers,
Keena
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:14 AM
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This is lovely, Larry.

Have you ever tried plein aire in acrylics? If so, how'd you find them?

Cheers,
Keena
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Old 06-25-2003, 11:49 AM
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Personally...I only put out about a dime size amount of paint, and for what I do....and how quickly I do what I do, I don't as a rule have problems with paint drying out.

If I intend to paint knowing I'm going to take a break, the convenience with the styrofoam plates is I'll turn the plate upside down on top of a used gallon plastic ice cream pale. In the bottom of the pale I'll have about 2-3 inches of water which then acts as a humidifier in the enclosed air space between the water at the bottom and the plate.

I've been able to walk away from such a plate and come back several days later and the paint is still wet enough to use.
- - - - -

I have used acrylics plein air painting...as I have pastel and watercolor. I do the later to create an assemblance of works I can refer to as my affordables, basically only matting and shrink wrapping those.

Acrylics are kind of the no fuss no muss medium really.

However...to be honest...when I'm standing before nature in a live situation...I am aware of so much drama and play of light, and the effects of light on texture. I think it is that rich play of light and color with the immense three D texture smacking me in the face that I prefer my oils. They apply very thick, and my copal medium assures the buttery paint to stay as I applied it.

Now...I often use Liquitex Extender medium which used to be called "gelex" which gives the acrylics some body, some thickness that refrains flattening from water evaporation. IT leaves the paint with an oil-like thickness....and I have a number of stories and experiences where galleries took my acrylic pieces and mislabled them as oils.

Oil though...will itself being more full bodied and three dimensional by its very nature attract and absorb light, and within itself the light will bounce around in the oil binder and pigments to produce a jewel like glow that acrylics due to their more opaque and flat nature cannot do. The water in the acrylic dries...and the polymer binder does not and cannot do that same phenomena that oils will.

So...when I want to imitate the richness and brilliance of color intensity that I see outdoors....I keep coming back to oils for more adequately imitating such.

Note....I'm not saying "superiority"....of one medium over the other. I am not a promoter of a medium. Not a purist. I don't puff myself up with pride to proclaim myself a this or that. What is important to me is the final image...and does it work to pull out of me the sense of aesthetic need I had to do the work to begin with? Sometimes its the stroke and painterliness of a pastel stick that does that. Sometimes the crispness of a masking area of white with watercolor...and so forth. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Acrylics is speed, convenience, quick drying...slap on a frame and go, and so forth.

I'll be delivering roughly 20 paintings by this weeks end or beginning of next week. I have a spare 8"x10" frame that's been laying around and my intention is that this work will go with me. Can't do that with oils!

One thing I am toying with is using acrylics for my largest of plein airs.

I admire and aspire to do some huge works as did Buck County legend landscapist/alla prima plein airist Edward Redfield, who work in the late 1800's to near mid 1900's. His canvases were tied to trees and were as large as 50" x 56"...and done in oils. Started, and finished in one day. Amazing.

check out AskArt.com link for Redfield samples-
http://www.askart.com/theartist.asp?id=23606

click onto the Image gallery and you'll be allowed (as a nonmember) to see five of his works.

After some discussion with a number of artists in the plein air forum on this topic...we pondered upon the common sense possibility and ease of taking a preprimed/gessoed canvas rolled up with stretcher bars apart and carrying that back into deep forests and country where I often most paint.

I had horrible imaginings trying to figure out how to wrestle out of the woods a very large painting done with oils fighting wind, fighting bugs....brush and trees.

With acrylics...I could quickly put together the stretcher frames, temporarily staple the canvas on...paint with the acrylics...and five minutes after putting my easel together for carrying simply pull out the staples, roll the large canvas back up...and walk my way back out of the woods. Later, I could restretch the canvas and permanently mount on board or staple to stretcher bars and frame.

So...I'll carry plenty of the thickening gel medium for impasto effect when I do....I'll have to try that yet at least once this summer so I can report on it. I owe that much to everyone that was involved in that discussion....

Larry
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Old 06-25-2003, 12:03 PM
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i use those identical plates- an aluminum foil cover is good for several hours before paint dries up. Clear wrap falls in the mix and creates its own artwerk.
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Old 06-25-2003, 02:47 PM
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Larry,

Your idea for giant size acrylics en plein air is a good one. Although I can imagine the oil one getting a lot more "texture" on the way out!

I am playing around with some Golden light modelling paste for impasto texture. Slathering some, actually quite thinly, on a painting I'm working one. Works great! 4 hours later it was still workable and somewhat moist (like "tacky" with other acrylic paints - but it doesn't feel tacky - if that makes any sense...).

Anyway, what I'm getting at it that you may have some trouble with thick textural effects drying before you roll your painting up - depending on the air humidity. Maybe try this on a hot, sunny day?!?!

Sounds like a fun project!

Cheers,
Keena
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Old 06-26-2003, 11:24 AM
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Hi Larry,
Thank you for the WIP ! It's very interesting. The scene looks lovely, I can't wait to see how you will do the water.
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Old 06-26-2003, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarrySeiler


Acrylics are kind of the no fuss no muss medium really.

However...to be honest...when I'm standing before nature in a live situation...I am aware of so much drama and play of light, and the effects of light on texture. I think it is that rich play of light and color with the immense three D texture smacking me in the face that I prefer my oils. They apply very thick, and my copal medium assures the buttery paint to stay as I applied it.

Oil though...will itself being more full bodied and three dimensional by its very nature attract and absorb light, and within itself the light will bounce around in the oil binder and pigments to produce a jewel like glow that acrylics due to their more opaque and flat nature cannot do. The water in the acrylic dries...and the polymer binder does not and cannot do that same phenomena that oils will.

So...when I want to imitate the richness and brilliance of color intensity that I see outdoors....I keep coming back to oils for more adequately imitating such.

Larry

Larry,

Have you used water-soluble oils? Would they, in your opinion, have the same qualities that you find in your regular oils - the whole "light-bouncing" phenomenon?

Cheers,
Keena
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Old 06-26-2003, 02:58 PM
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LarrySeiler LarrySeiler is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Keenataz


Larry,

Have you used water-soluble oils? Would they, in your opinion, have the same qualities that you find in your regular oils - the whole "light-bouncing" phenomenon?

Cheers,
Keena

I've got a bunch of 'em, but really haven't messed with 'em yet. Between oils and acrylics....which both existed prior to the water soluables, I just figured how in time to use them both well and it never became apparent thereafter why water soluable oils would be good for me.

However, this very one principle of an oil paint might make the water soluables advantageous over acrylics. INteresting you brought that up. I'll have to chew on that a bit, but I would guess the answer to be yes...they should have more light transferrence and translucency then acrylics.

Larry
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